EVE General Discussion

I just realized i never really tackled the issue at hand in favor of commenting on certain points. lol. I think it's pretty much a case of interests and where they lay. I never cared about spaceships. Still don't really. I see them mainly as tools to accomplish a job. Sci-fi has never appealed to me. I've been trying to get into it more since trying eve but its not easy. It just doesn't click very well with me.

Perverts in game have never really bothered me. After years of online gaming they are just a fact of life. I know how to deal with them and do so accordingly. No game exists that I haven't tried due to be presence of pervy mouthbreathers. Those types are everywhere. Eve was no different. It took me so long to try eve because of the subject material. Boredom drive me to try it and I never thought I would stick with it long. It was the market that hooked me initially. Making money. And then the cool people I met.

So I guess I'm living proof that women can get into eve even without much of a geeky side to begin with. With me it was just finding something I liked about it and building the relationship from there.

This is all stuff said before in the thread. This is just my take on the subject.

You don't understand the issue then, at all.
It's not that we want them in our game for our own personal "interest".
It's that we're concerned about an entire demographic that finds EVE unpalatable for no particularly good reason.

No, You don't understand the issue.

Wondering why more women don't play EVE is like wondering why more blue eyed people dont play EVE. Players are players, and who cares if they're male or female, short or tall, fat or skinny, white or black. No one SHOULD give a ****. In my experience most players do not care and those that do fall into the catergory that you seem to represent very well. The category that seems to think they need to make an entirely different game to appeal to women. Maybe you need to stop giving a **** and just let players play the game nomatter who they are.

Except blue-eyed players don't face any kind of widespread prejudice and discrimination.
Women do.

Yawn, go to sleep and there's like 5 more pages of this foolishness. But, let's tackle this.



First of all, I'm not in charge of squat in my corp, and that's the way I like it, lol. Any leadership experiences I mentioned were from WoW, in early Wrath of the Lich King. But that's a small digression.

Alright, so the problem is "people like me". I love how playing devil's advocate for people's right to free association makes me the problem, but hey, moving on.

So, as I mentioned. this is a player issue, and has little if anything to do with the actual game. So, what are we going to do about this? Can we make EVE players attend mandatory Equal Opportunity and Sexual Harrassment classes, like in a big IRL corporation?

No?

Then as someone else said, this is a non issue. Aside from huge, mass bannings to defend a small few number of players, the community won't change the way that they've always been, they have little reason to. CCP won't, for all their recent white knighting, start banning 5 or 6 thousand people for offending other people. It's not economical or realistic to do so.

Maybe you, as the CSM, has more insight into how we can try to change the playerbase than I, but from my perspective, nothing's likely to change. In which case, this whole exercise has been pointless.

So, it's utter bullshit to say women don't like sci fi? Good thing I haven't said that, because I know plenty of women who do. My regular opponent at the 40k table is a 14 year old girl lol. I said on average it's not as appealing as it is to men. That is, unless we can actually lay the demographic disparity entirely at my feet.

Ok, the anti American thing? For real? I do hope he had realized before he joined your alliance that people don't like Americans lol. I don't really want to make that the tired old, "EVE isn't for the thin skinned" again, but yikes. I could only imagine that it transcended jokes made in his prescence and became personal attacks, which is a different matter.

And to your last point. I'm not defending anyone's right to be a **** to anyone else (although that is still their right as players, let the mods fall where they may). What I'm saying is, that I can understand someone wanting to remove a disruption from their social order.

What I'm saying is, that if someone starts to tell you "It's them or me", just by that statement, to me, they aren't worth the trouble. Because the person who says that is out to start trouble. The person who actually can come to me, and say "Hey, this isn't cool", yeah, I am pretty well ok with that. The people who literally can't be asked to knock off something that is directed(there's the key word) at another person, needs to grow up some. But when it's "Person X said '*****' once, I want him gone cause that's sexist!!11!", no, I don't back that kind of person up.

And that's about the part where, I said I don't care to be told to watch my language. Which is pretty much where this all escalated from.

I don't "bar women", that was in 2009, and I've long since quit World of Pandas. I have no say in recruitment at my own corp.

Furthermore, as I mentioned, the outright word "ban" was probably a poor choice of words. But the criteria myself and the other guild officers had agreed upon (no noobs, no drama, no ret paladins and no Gnomes), did end up removing any of the women who applied in the future from consideration. It had the same effect as a ban in any case, but that's just semantics.

And like I said. If you're the kind of person who will bat your e-lashes at me in a teamspeak interview, then you're not the kind of person I want to play with. Nuff said. Nevermind that we rejected dozens, possibly more than a hundred men's guild apps in the same 3 month period for petty **** like not being gemmed or specced correctly.

I use the "it's them or me" statement because that is precisely what happened. Not my opinion, that's just what happened.

Do I have the right to choose who I associate with? Judging from some of the comments, I seemingly don't/shouldn't.

I play with women in this game, and many others. What I am saying is, judging from my own personal experiences, I can understand someone who wouldn't want to associate with females in a game. I can easily how understand how men, especially American men, would be made uneasy in such circumstances too. It's a conditioned defense mechanism from having been burned in the past, irl or otherwise. Should this happen? Probably not. But is it the reality of the situation? Yes.

I know, right!

It's almost as if you really aren't as important as you think you are and people can manage to carry on a conversation without you.

Mr Epeen

No, more like I thought it would have been locked again by now. Surprised it's still up here at honestly.

That's taking it to the politically correct extreme.

There will always be differences. And those differences are having an impact to EvE, as the gender ratios are out of whack. If it's but 4% women playing EvE (as that'll be even lower than FPS games) the game, for positive mental health issues alone, EvE needs help. That's too much "away" time from the opposite sex, in a game where the age of the guys are prime marriage years. For the sociological reasons as well that's not healthy.

Just think of what NASA is going through with a Mars landing, and that's for a 3 year mission. Being away from the wife and kids for that long is one thing, being away from females completely is another. Such seclusion brings up mental health issues and poor socialization skills -- and in gaming, with basement boys -- not healthy.

Game socialization needs to reflect reality in games like MMOs, as they're heavy time sinks and methods to "get away". Fine to "get away" from that boss from hell; mother-in-law; the drudge of school...but not human company, and a good mix of it. Consider a game like a bar, and a bar with only guys in the back is pretty dull, as it's missing half of socialization equation.

And you know the guys will enjoy it, too.

I didn't say there weren't any female sci-fi fans. There's just not that many. For some reason it's guys that primarily like messing around with machines and tech for fun and sci-fi is a natural thing to take a liking to when messing around with machines and tech is one of the most fun things for a person.