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Awoxing & Dueling
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#61 - 2013-06-06 20:07:07 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Oh look, a parade of awoxers whining about having easy mode turned off.


It wouldn't be so easy if corp leaders didn't make it easy. This year along only 1 corp has rejected my application because they actually looked up my character, the rest just accept after a 5 minute convo where I pretty much lie the entire time. The character in question that I'm using was made in 2009 & has only ever killed corp members.

You can say that we don't want easy mode turned off all day, the truth is that you want it turned on.


First, don't call it easymode. YOU have the easymode, what we want is an extra layer of assurance, not easymode.
Easymode equal to attacking a corpmate whenever you please would be a button to report you to CONCORD whenever you attack.
Extra role is not easymode at all.


Horse-Manure!!!

Easy mode is flipping a switch to disable AWOXing for your corp. If AWOXing requires a "specific role", you simply never give that role out disabling AWOXing in your corp.

Vetting employees requires effort, which you are bypassing with your "turn AWOXing off switch".
I will agree, AWOXing people once you are in corp is generally easy, too. The hard part is for an AWOXer to actually get INTO corp, but many corps don't actually put effort into vetting their recruits, making this "should be difficult" task and easy one.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-06-06 20:34:00 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Oh look, a parade of awoxers whining about having easy mode turned off.


It wouldn't be so easy if corp leaders didn't make it easy. This year along only 1 corp has rejected my application because they actually looked up my character, the rest just accept after a 5 minute convo where I pretty much lie the entire time. The character in question that I'm using was made in 2009 & has only ever killed corp members.

You can say that we don't want easy mode turned off all day, the truth is that you want it turned on.


First, don't call it easymode. YOU have the easymode, what we want is an extra layer of assurance, not easymode.
Easymode equal to attacking a corpmate whenever you please would be a button to report you to CONCORD whenever you attack.
Extra role is not easymode at all.


Horse-Manure!!!

Easy mode is flipping a switch to disable AWOXing for your corp. If AWOXing requires a "specific role", you simply never give that role out disabling AWOXing in your corp.

Vetting employees requires effort, which you are bypassing with your "turn AWOXing off switch".
I will agree, AWOXing people once you are in corp is generally easy, too. The hard part is for an AWOXer to actually get INTO corp, but many corps don't actually put effort into vetting their recruits, making this "should be difficult" task and easy one.


Why would you goons care about awoxing anyways? You can shoot your corpmates in null anytime you want actually I would encourage it.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#63 - 2013-06-06 20:44:14 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Oh look, a parade of awoxers whining about having easy mode turned off.


It wouldn't be so easy if corp leaders didn't make it easy. This year along only 1 corp has rejected my application because they actually looked up my character, the rest just accept after a 5 minute convo where I pretty much lie the entire time. The character in question that I'm using was made in 2009 & has only ever killed corp members.

You can say that we don't want easy mode turned off all day, the truth is that you want it turned on.


First, don't call it easymode. YOU have the easymode, what we want is an extra layer of assurance, not easymode.
Easymode equal to attacking a corpmate whenever you please would be a button to report you to CONCORD whenever you attack.
Extra role is not easymode at all.


Horse-Manure!!!

Easy mode is flipping a switch to disable AWOXing for your corp. If AWOXing requires a "specific role", you simply never give that role out disabling AWOXing in your corp.

Vetting employees requires effort, which you are bypassing with your "turn AWOXing off switch".
I will agree, AWOXing people once you are in corp is generally easy, too. The hard part is for an AWOXer to actually get INTO corp, but many corps don't actually put effort into vetting their recruits, making this "should be difficult" task and easy one.


Why would you goons care about awoxing anyways? You can shoot your corpmates in null anytime you want actually I would encourage it.


Do you know how the term AWOXing came into existence?

As the legend goes, a character named AWOX used his blue characters to kill goons, in nullsec, with alts by getting the initial tackle on the victims and finishing them with neutral alts. (The legend isn't completely true, btw).

It has since evolved to mean using an in-corp character to attack and kill corp mates.

And why would the goons care about an in-corp character attacking them?

-- They have many blingy ratting ships, including carriers and supers through nullsec. An AWOXer could easily trap these pilots long enough for a hostile gang to destroy them.

-- They bring material in & out of nullsec to empire, hauling 100's of billions in moongoo and supplies each month. An AWOXer could score some major kills if they successfully infiltrate the right corp.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-06-06 20:52:16 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
And why would the goons care about an in-corp character attacking them?

-- They have many blingy ratting ships, including carriers and supers through nullsec. An AWOXer could easily trap these pilots long enough for a hostile gang to destroy them.

-- They bring material in & out of nullsec to empire, hauling 100's of billions in moongoo and supplies each month. An AWOXer could score some major kills if they successfully infiltrate the right corp.



Anyone caught ratting in a carrier or super deserves to die, we don't care about such people.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-06-06 20:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Basil Pupkin wrote:
First, don't call it easymode. YOU have the easymode, what we want is an extra layer of assurance, not easymode.
Easymode equal to attacking a corpmate whenever you please would be a button to report you to CONCORD whenever you attack.
Extra role is not easymode at all.


But that's exactly what you're asking for. You want awoxing to be disabled so you don't have to actually put in :effort: when it comes to vetting potential new recruits. If only more corp recruiters put in such :effort: awoxing wouldn't be as hilariously easy as it currently is. Recruiters have all the tools available to them to catch awoxers out & they don't bother using them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Markarian Aurelius
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-06-06 20:57:12 UTC
RomeStar wrote:


Now that dueling has been introduced, do you think its time to take awoxing off the table?


Not that I condone awoxing, but perhaps CEO's should just continue to be more careful of who they let in the corp. Another alternative is to require a security deposit to compensate someone should they be awoxed.

I see no problem with the current mechanic. It's all part of emergent gameplay.
Adunh Slavy
#67 - 2013-06-06 21:09:34 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:

You can say that we don't want easy mode turned off all day, the truth is that you want it turned on.


Seems like the poeple making the most noise is the awoxers. Reminds me of many of the other tings that have changed over the years. Keep up with this old canard though, it's always worked in the past hasn't it?

Oh that's right, it hasn't.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Adunh Slavy
#68 - 2013-06-06 21:13:15 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:

But that's exactly what you're asking for. You want awoxing to be disabled so you don't have to actually put in :effort: when it comes to vetting potential new recruits. If only more corp recruiters put in such :effort: awoxing wouldn't be as hilariously easy as it currently is. Recruiters have all the tools available to them to catch awoxers out & they don't bother using them.



Goons giving advice on recruitment is a joke. You guys have SA. All your talk of "effort" is empty.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#69 - 2013-06-06 21:20:17 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
First, don't call it easymode. YOU have the easymode, what we want is an extra layer of assurance, not easymode.
Easymode equal to attacking a corpmate whenever you please would be a button to report you to CONCORD whenever you attack.
Extra role is not easymode at all.


But that's exactly what you're asking for. You want awoxing to be disabled so you don't have to actually put in :effort: when it comes to vetting potential new recruits. If only more corp recruiters put in such :effort: awoxing wouldn't be as hilariously easy as it currently is. Recruiters have all the tools available to them to catch awoxers out & they don't bother using them.


No, and do not invert my line please.

I want awoxers to put :effort: you require from recruiters, that is all.

Recruiters only have tools to capture OBVIOUS awoxers. Anything less than obvious is IMPOSSIBLE to capture using existing tools. I might somewhat agree that whoever recruited an obvious awoxer deserves what he got, but what if he recruited an awoxer alt or traded character? What tools recruiter has to identify those as awoxer, please, enlighten me.

And spare me a Goon-ish answer like "never recruit alts and noobs, monitor character trading board for recently traded characters every day", because that is obviously both impossible and not uncompromiseable way to do it.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-06-06 21:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
How will people kill that stolen freighter/ship that has just been robbed if they are not allowed to kill a corp mate.

It seems less and less people think before they post. Idiots abound on these forums.

I would suggest CEO do a better job but I guess that means effort now does it not? I am not an awoxer... I had one in corp before and he paid for trying with his ship and pod.

If you want to make awoxers think twice.... make neutral RR suspect when repping corp mates shooting at each other. Right now an awoxer can get free reps from a neutral while shooting corp mates without the worry that his rr will be popped.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-06-06 21:25:21 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Recruiters only have tools to capture OBVIOUS awoxers. Anything less than obvious is IMPOSSIBLE to capture using existing tools. I might somewhat agree that whoever recruited an obvious awoxer deserves what he got, but what if he recruited an awoxer alt or traded character? What tools recruiter has to identify those as awoxer, please, enlighten me.


yeah that guy who just applied to your corp with a killboard full of in-corp kills is not an obvious awoxer

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-06-06 21:25:29 UTC
i bet you want suicide ganking removed too

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#73 - 2013-06-06 22:01:21 UTC
You are supposed to trust your corp members, this is a feature that encourages you to only recruit corp members that you trust.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-06-06 22:04:54 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
You are supposed to trust your corp members, this is a feature that encourages you to only recruit corp members that you trust.



but it prevents them from building up gigantic newbie tax farms

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#75 - 2013-06-06 22:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Andski wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Recruiters only have tools to capture OBVIOUS awoxers. Anything less than obvious is IMPOSSIBLE to capture using existing tools. I might somewhat agree that whoever recruited an obvious awoxer deserves what he got, but what if he recruited an awoxer alt or traded character? What tools recruiter has to identify those as awoxer, please, enlighten me.


yeah that guy who just applied to your corp with a killboard full of in-corp kills is not an obvious awoxer


You are ignoring my question here. I already told you that I somewhat agree to the point of recruiting obvious awoxer being the recruiters fault. What about alts, traded characters, or even less eula-compliant ways to get your hands on a "clean" character?

Andski wrote:
i bet you want suicide ganking removed too


Silly you. I used to secretly provide catalysts to people I saw in ice belts NOT in a barge Big smile They made a great and affordable show for me and my procurer-piloting friends.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-06-06 22:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
First, don't call it easymode. YOU have the easymode, what we want is an extra layer of assurance, not easymode.
Easymode equal to attacking a corpmate whenever you please would be a button to report you to CONCORD whenever you attack.
Extra role is not easymode at all.


But that's exactly what you're asking for. You want awoxing to be disabled so you don't have to actually put in :effort: when it comes to vetting potential new recruits. If only more corp recruiters put in such :effort: awoxing wouldn't be as hilariously easy as it currently is. Recruiters have all the tools available to them to catch awoxers out & they don't bother using them.


No, and do not invert my line please.

Recruiters only have tools to capture OBVIOUS awoxers. Anything less than obvious is IMPOSSIBLE to capture using existing tools. I might somewhat agree that whoever recruited an obvious awoxer deserves what he got, but what if he recruited an awoxer alt or traded character? What tools recruiter has to identify those as awoxer, please, enlighten me.

And spare me a Goon-ish answer like "never recruit alts and noobs, monitor character trading board for recently traded characters every day", because that is obviously both impossible and not uncompromiseable way to do it.


When I claim that my awoxing character was one I recently bought, they take my word for it & proceed to recruit me instead of using eve-search & checking whether this is true or not. That is, if they ever bothered to check my history or the API I gave them in the first place. So you can claim that you have no tools against awoxers all day, but I can prove you wrong.

Now of course you can't tell if a brand new character is going to awox. What you can do is setup the mining fleet you just invited them on so it can actually defend itself from that newbie in a thrasher. The ammount of times I've wiped out an entire mining fleet including Orca because no one bothered with attack drones is truly sad, but people awoxing with brand new characters is exceedingly rare since corp recruiters make it so easy to do with a character like this.

Quote:
I want awoxers to put :effort: you require from recruiters, that is all.


So you want us to vet out corporations that might make a good awoxing target? We already do this.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-06-06 22:18:06 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
You are supposed to trust your corp members


This is why you will always be the willing victim.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-06-06 22:22:46 UTC
Sheynan wrote:
You are supposed to trust your corp members


Why?

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-06-06 22:25:09 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
You are ignoring my question here. I already told you that I somewhat agree to the point of recruiting obvious awoxer being the recruiters fault. What about alts, traded characters, or even less eula-compliant ways to get your hands on a "clean" character?


you mean people who invest more effort into concealing their intent to awox you don't just give themselves away?

what a thought

let's get back to why awoxing needs to be removed so you can run your newbie tax farms

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#80 - 2013-06-06 22:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Mallak Azaria wrote:
When I claim that my awoxing character was one I recently bought, they take my word for it & proceed to recruit me instead of using eve-search & checking whether this is true or not. That is, if they ever bothered to check my history or the API I gave them in the first place. So you can claim that you have no tools against awoxers all day, but I can prove you wrong.

Go ahead. Pick any unobvious awoxer and explain me how do I identify him.

Mallak Azaria wrote:
Now of course you can't tell if a brand new character is going to awox. What you can do is setup the mining fleet you just invited them on so it can actually defend itself from that newbie in a thrasher. The ammount of times I've wiped out an entire mining fleet including Orca because no one bothered with attack drones is truly sad, but people awoxing with brand new characters is exceedingly rare since corp recruiters make it so easy to do with a character like this.


Please, get serious. You KNOW you're up against mining fleet, which only has drones to attack you. Unless you're as low as you try to make those recruiters look, you'll equip some obvious anti-drone measures and render their effort futile.
Why use thrasher in the first place? With no CONCORD interference you can pick a beefier ship.

Andski wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
You are ignoring my question here. I already told you that I somewhat agree to the point of recruiting obvious awoxer being the recruiters fault. What about alts, traded characters, or even less eula-compliant ways to get your hands on a "clean" character?


you mean people who invest more effort into concealing their intent to awox you don't just give themselves away?

what a thought

let's get back to why awoxing needs to be removed so you can run your newbie tax farms


Mynnna's school of forum warfare. Ignore everything you can't refute. I personally have no interest in recruiting anyone who I don't know irl, but people who do might be interested in your anti-awox tool explanation you promised me there.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.