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Awoxing & Dueling
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#41 - 2013-06-06 16:56:14 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
But where is the risk when it comes to awoxing.


We actually once recruited an awoxer on purpose, popped his ship, ensured his podding with smartbombs and expelled him immediately.

Many lulz were had.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#42 - 2013-06-06 17:53:36 UTC
Andski wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Its not a false doomsday scenario its a good idea what are the benefits of being in a corp rather than creating your own corp and still playing with your friends in a coalition?


I don't know ask eveuni, they seem to do fine with 3000 members in a single corp in highsec


* Looks at eveuni list of awoxers.
* Confirms that any idea only goons are opposed to must be implemented asap.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#43 - 2013-06-06 17:56:25 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Question: What was the main reason to allow corpmates to shoot corpmates?

I am going to assume it was so you and your friends can partake in a friendly duel without concord intervention.

Now that dueling has been introduced, do you think its time to take awoxing off the table? I can see the flames from here especially those safari kings but its a legitmate question. No I have not been the victim of an awoxer nor have I ever awoxed a fellow corpmate. I think removing awoxing will actually help corp recruitment.

Just my 2cts.


I have been the victim of a rather expensive awoxing (aka God's way of saying "use a naga you fool) in null sec. While it wasn't a corp (or even allaince) mate nor was it due to dueling, but the same rules apply. Awoxing is part and parcel of EVE's "trust no one" tradition and getting rid of it is anti-EVE.

If a corp doesn't liek awoxxing it should recruit better and train it's pilots to fly ships fit to resist or at least survive awoxxing attempts.


um, you kinda have to be in the same corp/alliance to get awox'd ...

No, you have to be in the same CORPORATION to get awox'd. It doesn't apply to alliance members; as you will get Concordokken if you shoot an alliance member not in your corp.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-06-06 18:18:38 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Its not a false doomsday scenario its a good idea what are the benefits of being in a corp rather than creating your own corp and still playing with your friends in a coalition?


I don't know ask eveuni, they seem to do fine with 3000 members in a single corp in highsec


* Looks at eveuni list of awoxers.
* Confirms that any idea only goons are opposed to must be implemented asap.


okay let's remove awoxing and wardecs

to balance the removal of all remaining risk from highsec, incursions, l4s and DED sites are removed from highsec entirely

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-06-06 18:22:10 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Its not a false doomsday scenario its a good idea what are the benefits of being in a corp rather than creating your own corp and still playing with your friends in a coalition?


I don't know ask eveuni, they seem to do fine with 3000 members in a single corp in highsec


* Looks at eveuni list of awoxers.
* Confirms that any idea only goons are opposed to must be implemented asap.


You do realize that the uni has corp events where they blow each others up? Some of their classes involve hunting down their teacher and blowing him/her up. They're openly encouraged to practice pvp with each others in a specifically built "cage" (made with cans in their home system).

So yea, it's all awoxing...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#46 - 2013-06-06 18:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
There are a several good reasons why you would allow corp mates to shoot each other:
-- Corp tournaments (I've ran several of these).
-- Insurance frauding (not so common anymore).
-- To test a ship's tank...
-- To stop a corp thief that is hauling your valuable assets off...
-- Web-to-warp Freighters and Orcas
-- AWOXing your corp mates to inflict massive damage to them!
-- Schadenfreude

I'm sure there are other reasons too.. and the "dueling" mechanic only works when both sides agree to the engagement, or have the time/desire to setup the duel.
Adunh Slavy
#47 - 2013-06-06 18:45:46 UTC
Oh look, a parade of awoxers whining about having easy mode turned off.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#48 - 2013-06-06 18:54:06 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
There are a several good reasons why you would allow corp mates to shoot each other:
-- Corp tournaments (I've ran several of these).
-- Insurance frauding (not so common anymore).
-- To test a ship's tank...
-- To stop a corp thief that is hauling your valuable assets off...
-- Web-to-warp Freighters and Orcas
-- AWOXing your corp mates to inflict massive damage to them!
-- Schadenfreude

I'm sure there are other reasons too.. and the "dueling" mechanic only works when both sides agree to the engagement, or have the time/desire to setup the duel.


Nothing a "can shoot other members" mutual role requirement can't solve.
Can put a role for all tournament participants.
Can put a role and do the insurance fraud.
Can put a role and test a ship's tank.
Can put a role and web-to-warp.
Can put a role up and start awoxing people by putting a role on THEM. But at least it would require SOME work now, like getting the right to give that role, no easymode anymore.

Give me an example that new role won't fulfill.

Borlag Crendraven wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Its not a false doomsday scenario its a good idea what are the benefits of being in a corp rather than creating your own corp and still playing with your friends in a coalition?


I don't know ask eveuni, they seem to do fine with 3000 members in a single corp in highsec


* Looks at eveuni list of awoxers.
* Confirms that any idea only goons are opposed to must be implemented asap.


You do realize that the uni has corp events where they blow each others up? Some of their classes involve hunting down their teacher and blowing him/her up. They're openly encouraged to practice pvp with each others in a specifically built "cage" (made with cans in their home system).

So yea, it's all awoxing...


There is a special list of people who awox outside of those events. Coincidently, it was the list I mentioned.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-06-06 19:00:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
there's a risk in recruiting any random idiot to your corp and there are ways to mitigate that risk


you are missing the glaring obvious point that when the awoxer join its not his risk thats being taken its the corps, all the power is in the random awox char hands. The corp can literally never protect itself from its own members by screening, some one will always die and its not because they didnt try not to be killed or the screening wsnt good.

asking for a dual and promising to stop in hull and not doing that is how an awox pvp should go, not just automatically being able to 24/7. It doesnt make much sense and you know it, same reason fleet members got changed because you used to be able to shoot fleet members.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-06-06 19:01:34 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
you are missing the glaring obvious point that when the awoxer join its not his risk thats being taken its the corps, all the power is in the random awox char hands. The corp can literally never protect itself from its own members by screening, some one will always die and its not because they didnt try not to be killed or the screening wsnt good.

asking for a dual and promising to stop in hull and not doing that is how an awox pvp should go, not just automatically being able to 24/7. It doesnt make much sense and you know it, same reason fleet members got changed because you used to be able to shoot fleet members.


nonsense, it's one guy versus an entire corp

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#51 - 2013-06-06 19:12:43 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
There are a several good reasons why you would allow corp mates to shoot each other:
-- Corp tournaments (I've ran several of these).
-- Insurance frauding (not so common anymore).
-- To test a ship's tank...
-- To stop a corp thief that is hauling your valuable assets off...
-- Web-to-warp Freighters and Orcas
-- AWOXing your corp mates to inflict massive damage to them!
-- Schadenfreude

I'm sure there are other reasons too.. and the "dueling" mechanic only works when both sides agree to the engagement, or have the time/desire to setup the duel.


Nothing a "can shoot other members" mutual role requirement can't solve.
Can put a role for all tournament participants.
Can put a role and do the insurance fraud.
Can put a role and test a ship's tank.
Can put a role and web-to-warp.
Can put a role up and start awoxing people by putting a role on THEM. But at least it would require SOME work now, like getting the right to give that role, no easymode anymore.

Give me an example that new role won't fulfill.


I'll admit that an overhaul of "corp roles" so that in-corp aggression becomes a flag that is grant-able would provide much of this utility while maintaining enhanced corp security.

Is it needed or worth the time for CCP to create such a thing? IMO, no. I much prefer corps take time to vet their applicants, to take precautions to limit corp thievery, etc. We already have in game tools to defend yourself (if you prepare for this inevitable event). We already have social tools (websites & forums) to identify and blacklist these people. For example, Agony reviews all applicants and blacklists people that don't conform to our social policies.

So, why do we need a "switch" to disable AWOX game play? I don't understand how disabling it benefits this game!

Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#52 - 2013-06-06 19:17:17 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
But where is the risk when it comes to awoxing. Gankers take the risk of concord. I believe the greatest risk an awoxer takes is the potential of the rest of the corp showing up and doing what concord is too lazy to do.

Awoxing is no risk all reward. Yes their name is slandered all over the forums but only a small pct of players actually reads the forums.

TBH if you recruit an awoxer with a bad history of hitting his/her corpmates then its your own fault but why even give them a chance make them earn that kill.



If your intention is to grief people, then Awoxing is all reward, and no risk.....

Corps have absolutely no way to protect themselves from this, create a new player, buy one on the forums, there are any number of ways to avoid detection.

So your claim that the risk is all the Awoxers...is just halarious...

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-06-06 19:22:23 UTC
Andski wrote:

nonsense, it's one guy versus an entire corp


correct but only when he fires the first round does anyone know and cannot assemble to protect itself.

you cannot do that in a gang or an allience, why is corp special? Why not remove it now theres dual mode (no can flipping for aggro etc)

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-06-06 19:32:31 UTC
yeah i forgot the part where the awoxer is the only one who can shoot

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-06-06 19:32:57 UTC
i get it you want to remove all nonconsensual pvp from hisec because who said eve supposed to be harsh

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#56 - 2013-06-06 19:40:21 UTC
Andski wrote:
i get it you want to remove all nonconsensual pvp from hisec because who said eve supposed to be harsh


The Goon song again.

What corp security has to do with nonconsensual pvp?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-06-06 19:44:04 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
i get it you want to remove all nonconsensual pvp from hisec because who said eve supposed to be harsh


The Goon song again.

What corp security has to do with nonconsensual pvp?


There is no such thing as nonconsensual pvp in EVE. You consent by pressing undock.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-06-06 19:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Oh look, a parade of awoxers whining about having easy mode turned off.


It wouldn't be so easy if corp leaders didn't make it easy. This year along only 1 corp has rejected my application because they actually looked up my character, the rest just accept after a 5 minute convo where I pretty much lie the entire time. The character in question that I'm using was made in 2009 & has only ever killed corp members.

You can say that we don't want easy mode turned off all day, the truth is that you want it turned on.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#59 - 2013-06-06 19:57:08 UTC
In order for you to take pride in the quality of your corp members there has to be some potential for getting bad apples (threats) in the mix... otherwise there is nothing to take pride in.

Lets not ask game mechanics to take the place of intelligent decision making.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#60 - 2013-06-06 19:59:37 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Oh look, a parade of awoxers whining about having easy mode turned off.


It wouldn't be so easy if corp leaders didn't make it easy. This year along only 1 corp has rejected my application because they actually looked up my character, the rest just accept after a 5 minute convo where I pretty much lie the entire time. The character in question that I'm using was made in 2009 & has only ever killed corp members.

You can say that we don't want easy mode turned off all day, the truth is that you want it turned on.


First, don't call it easymode. YOU have the easymode, what we want is an extra layer of assurance, not easymode.
Easymode equal to attacking a corpmate whenever you please would be a button to report you to CONCORD whenever you attack.
Extra role is not easymode at all.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.