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Hamgu vs New CNR

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Mith'riin
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-06 02:46:45 UTC
I'm a few days away (Like a month) of being able to fly a CNR decently (T2 fit). I already fly a T2 Poor man's Hamgu. I was training for a Machariel before Oddysey, and my question is....

Is it worth it to go now for the CNR ? Or do i stick to my original T2 Machariel plan ? Mind you, it's for lvl's 4 mostly....maybe incursions when dps in needed. I'll be moving to 0.0/wh in a few months too ^^

Bird is the word
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#2 - 2013-06-06 02:50:29 UTC
For Incursions you definitely don't want a CNR, missiles and incursions don't mix well as you need the instant damage application of guns to even consider winning contested sites. Also with the tracking enhancer nerf Machs lost some of their projection but I haven't tested it out to know for sure if a CNR will beat it at L4s. As for Hamgu vs CNR vs Mach, I'd put my money on the CNR for L4s however if you can already fly a Hamgu the difference is probably not that much, stick to the Hamgu for the time being and train for a Mach is what I would do.
Matuk Grymwal
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2013-06-06 03:03:34 UTC
Something else to keep in mind is they've said they will swap the mach back to having a tracking bonus instead of a falloff bonus. If that does happen it will further reduce its effectiveness in missions.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-06-06 06:22:33 UTC
Matuk Grymwal wrote:
Something else to keep in mind is they've said they will swap the mach back to having a tracking bonus instead of a falloff bonus. If that does happen it will further reduce its effectiveness in missions.


Mind giving a source of that info? I haven't heard this one myself before.

That said, even if they nerf it "to the ground", Vargur isn't THAT far behind, so people will likely just switch to it for ranged missions.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-06-06 07:00:51 UTC
I recomment getting CNR or SNI over hamgu anyday in odyssey, Tengu has become totally obsolete if you want to do hisec lvl4 missions.

Train up until you can do lvl4-s easily and then go for whatever ship/weapons you want for incursions, Now that CNR can do insane dps over 100km, I dont see any point having ridicuslously expensive mach and it's getting nurfs as ppl say around here.


or.. you could always go for Minmatar gunships (it doesnt have to be mach) and therefore it's easier to train up skills for incursions later.

why not typhoon fleet issue? misles + sentrys..
how about tempest fleet issue?

then marauders skill and vargur
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-06-06 07:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
I was doing a Guristas mission with my Navy Raven earlier and I gotta say I was fairly pleased with the way it flew now as compared to before Odyssey. The increased drone bay size let me fit three Warden IIs as well as a flight of Hornet IIs, and the missiles alone were one-shotting BCs. T2 cruisers took more work, as did battleships and frigates, but T1 cruisers were averaging 50/50 on insta-popping too.

As for the machariel, I don't really see that swapping the falloff bonus for a tracking bonus is much of a "nerf." Yes, it reduces your ability to just sit there and shoot stuff, but if you're already, or at least still, used to moving the ship around then it's not much of a concern. The ship is pretty damn fast so with an MWD scooting a bit closer isn't going to take long, and with an AB the tracking bonus, at least in a sense, turns your speed into tank by letting you move faster before taking a serious penalty to your DPS due to transversal. That increased "tank" in turn lets you fit more modules like a TC2 scripted for range to get back some of that missing falloff.

Tracking or falloff, script TCs for whatever bonus the ship doesn't have and the difference likely won't matter much in the long run.

CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
Tengu has become totally obsolete if you want to do hisec lvl4 missions.


Not necessarily. The Tengu is still a lot easier to make annoying for people who might want to probe you down, and that in turn could be an important factor for people who are war-dec'd and still willing to take the risk of running missions. Faster align time means faster into warp if someone crashes your mission as well.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#7 - 2013-06-06 08:29:32 UTC
I have both an RNI and an SNI and flew the new RNI last night for 10 Lvl 4 missions. I got rid of the Drone Link and added an 8th launcher and popped a 100MN AB in the new Mid. My fit looks like this:

CM Launcher II x 8

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Mission Specific Resist
Mission Specific Resist
Republic Fleet TP
Republic Fleet TP
Gist A-Type 100MN AB
Heavy Capacitor Booster & Navy 800

DCII
CN BCU x 4

T2 Rigor x 2
T1 Flare

T2 Lights x 5

I have to say that the damage application has improved markedly. I can one shot a lot of Cruisers now without using the TPs. The damage on BS NPCs is just silly. I two shot a lot and I can't recall any needing more than 3 salvoes. Another indicator is that I had to run my booster far less often, not at all in some missions, which is indicative of being able to clear the NPCs faster.

I'll try the SNI tonight for comparison, but the RNI is massively improved. It's great being able to finally fit a prop mod without sacrificing any tank as well.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-06-06 11:56:22 UTC
You can upgrade that Flare to a T2 now. 400 calibration on Navy ships.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#9 - 2013-06-06 12:25:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
You can upgrade that Flare to a T2 now. 400 calibration on Navy ships.


Thanks!

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Chikin Thrace
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2013-06-06 15:06:57 UTC
isnt 2xT2 rigor + 2x faction TP a little overkill ?
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#11 - 2013-06-06 15:06:57 UTC
Are they further nerfing machariels? With the TE's nerf they're pretty much close to 20% less effective in their AC version. Not that I am doing missions, but it's still nice to know that when I get bored I have the option to
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#12 - 2013-06-06 16:08:34 UTC
Chikin Thrace wrote:
isnt 2xT2 rigor + 2x faction TP a little overkill ?


Depends how fast you want to complete missions I suppose. There's no right answer, down to personal preference ;)

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Chikin Thrace
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2013-06-06 17:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Chikin Thrace
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Chikin Thrace wrote:
isnt 2xT2 rigor + 2x faction TP a little overkill ?


Depends how fast you want to complete missions I suppose.


well that's the point i can't decide on , which one is better 2xT1 flare + 1xT2 BLA or 2xT2 rigor + 1xT1 flare

the T2 BLA adds more paper dps but are 2 TPs enough for decent damage application ?
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-07 03:07:08 UTC
I prefer the Hamgu out of convenience because a tengu pilot was kind enough to donate his pithi a shield booster in to our bubble. A 900 dps tank with 890 dps over 32 km is preferable to the CNR, which still is squishy as hell.
Lugio Bearbottom
#15 - 2013-06-07 03:20:19 UTC
Tengu retains the throne over all the slowboats for me. vOv
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2013-06-07 11:03:00 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
I prefer the Hamgu out of convenience because a tengu pilot was kind enough to donate his pithi a shield booster in to our bubble. A 900 dps tank with 890 dps over 32 km is preferable to the CNR, which still is squishy as hell.


With 7 midslots, a CNR doesn't have to be all that "squishy".

And they're noticeably faster than they were as well.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2013-06-07 11:12:39 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You can upgrade that Flare to a T2 now. 400 calibration on Navy ships.


Thanks!


Perhaps not coincidentally, there were 0 T2 large flares left for sale in Jita at 07:30 this morning (I bought the last one Cool )

I don't expect that extra 5% explosion velocity will make all that much difference, but it's better to have it than not, especially as pretty much the only time you're not going to 1-shot a medium ship is if you're catching it just after it turns off its MWD.

As far as the HAMgu is concerned, the new CNR is simply better in every L4 mission that you'd use a Tengu for. The Tengu is ~200m/s faster, but the CNR's missiles travel at 10km/s...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pacifyn
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-07 11:14:39 UTC
I agree. 900 Dps Hamgu at 620m/s is not as bad as people seem to think, perhap its not the absolute best mission boat, but it still does a pretty damn good job at it. Plus it's tank is pretty damn ridiculous, only time you ever lose 100% shield is while webbed
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-06-07 13:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Mith'riin wrote:
I'm a few days away (Like a month) of being able to fly a CNR decently (T2 fit). I already fly a T2 Poor man's Hamgu. I was training for a Machariel before Oddysey, and my question is....

Is it worth it to go now for the CNR ? Or do i stick to my original T2 Machariel plan ? Mind you, it's for lvl's 4 mostly....maybe incursions when dps in needed. I'll be moving to 0.0/wh in a few months too ^^



CNR or new Golem is your target.

Tengu in 4's is about blitzing, read kill triggers and skip other rats when gate aloud (some times doesn't), finish the mission and it's all about lp's.
If you really want to make isk/clean the site etc, no faction/officer fitted Tengu will go as fast as a Machariel/Vindicator or new CNR.
Tengu gets at best 1150dps with rage hams (kin) AND overheating, at best means top skills, expensive implants and faction stuff. A simple T2 fitted CNR already does more than 1.2K dps, a faction fitted Machariel +good implants etc is about 3K dps.

If you intend to do incursions almost every ship I just mentioned is way better than Tengu for it, lvl4's you have to decide if you're blitzing or running all the rats, blitz pick Tengu, clean pick anything else.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
hellcane
Never Back Down
#20 - 2013-06-07 14:24:26 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
[quote=Mith'riin] a faction fitted Machariel +good implants etc is about 3K dps.

EFT warrioring without understanding real world applications is fun
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