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The Last Straw

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Author
Sethose Olderon
Honourable Company of Gentlemen
#21 - 2013-06-06 05:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sethose Olderon
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Sethose Olderon wrote:
First, and foremost, Eve is dominated by Nullsec. Their culture, tactics, and influence is impossible to counter or side-step. Anyone who attempts to do so is curb-stomped and eliminated. Either you play by their rules, or you can take your toys and go home --the epitome of playground politics.


Which is why EvE really isn't a sandbox game.

Nullsec wouldn't influence a player in a sandbox game. Same with high or low sec.

PvE and PvP wouldn't influence each other, as you're allowed to do your own thing.

EvE is more a deus ex machinia game. Devs dictate content and how it's played. They set up the rules, and tomorrow can wipe the slate clean. They can choose to ignore the game for years. They can choose to influence the game or even certain parties (as history showed they actually did).

That much external control is not a sandbox, it's an illusion of one.


Agree, hence the pvp-arena, full nullsec creation comments. Pick the sandbox, or pick the themepark. CCP sits on the fence, and pisses off either end of the spectrum, because it's not the game each side wants.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson

Cyrus Alabel
Azure Wrath
#22 - 2013-06-06 05:22:25 UTC
Oh man, I guess this means that my time in faction warfare is all just me being a pawn of the null blocs.

Oh wait, the only time that sort of thing happened was when people abused FW in its Farmville incarnation when they still used the old LP store system. Nowadays they don't really care.

Believe it or not, you can play EVE and not be touched by null politics or their actions 23/7. Does null have a great sway on the game? Sure, I'll give you that. But that's partly because the null alliances are more politically aligned in larger numbers than almost anyone else in the game. If you could somehow manage to get them to band together, I'd wager that you could get a considerable hisec player bloc. Problem is, not everyone in hisec cares about the metagame, and are more interested in keeping the same mining ship they've been flying for 3 years from being ganked, as opposed to anything beyond their own belt.

Besides, if CCP only cared about null, and wanted everyone to go to null, they would've fixed sov warfare a long time ago. In its current state it is objectively terrible.

You also seem to have never heard of lowsec alliances. You don't need to be seizing sov to play EVE.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#23 - 2013-06-06 05:23:56 UTC
He'll be back.
The real un-sub'ers are those who quietly cancel and vanish without a word. A couple years pass, and someone says 'hey, whatever happened to so-n-so?' But they're gone, and no one knows when or why.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-06-06 05:29:26 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Which is why EvE really isn't a sandbox game.

Nullsec wouldn't influence a player in a sandbox game. Same with high or low sec.

PvE and PvP wouldn't influence each other, as you're allowed to do your own thing.

You don't seem to understand the concept of a sandbox game.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Haulie Berry
#25 - 2013-06-06 05:32:00 UTC
You did not actually articulate your problem in any way.

Also, you mentioned that you had made several attempts to build an alliance and claim sov - a strictly Nullsec activity - and then went on to complain about how Nullsec dominates the game.

It seems like you're basically saying that you're bad at the game, and it's someone else's fault.
Haulie Berry
#26 - 2013-06-06 05:33:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Which is why EvE really isn't a sandbox game.

Nullsec wouldn't influence a player in a sandbox game. Same with high or low sec.

PvE and PvP wouldn't influence each other, as you're allowed to do your own thing.

You don't seem to understand the concept of a sandbox game.


"Sandbox", "singleplayer", they both start with "S". It's easy to see how he could have confused the two. Roll
Sethose Olderon
Honourable Company of Gentlemen
#27 - 2013-06-06 05:47:12 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
You did not actually articulate your problem in any way.

Also, you mentioned that you had made several attempts to build an alliance and claim sov - a strictly Nullsec activity - and then went on to complain about how Nullsec dominates the game.

It seems like you're basically saying that you're bad at the game, and it's someone else's fault.


There is a difference between overcoming adversity, and banging your head against the wall because you can't walk though it.

Your statement is an over simplification.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-06-06 05:50:38 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
floating in space wrote:
You know what would be a fun game mechanic? High-sec wages war on 0.0 with the help of Concord to expand High-Sec space.

In other words, you suck so bad at this game that your only hope of defeating us is with the help of the most powerful NPC which is designed to be invincible and kill everything within 30 seconds.


PvE can be really mean stuff. When guards can one shot faster than a PvPer can click a button, more so.

It's only because CCP gimps gate guards and CONCORD PvP even exists -- it can be m-u-c-h worse.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Haulie Berry
#29 - 2013-06-06 05:51:32 UTC
Sethose Olderon wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
You did not actually articulate your problem in any way.

Also, you mentioned that you had made several attempts to build an alliance and claim sov - a strictly Nullsec activity - and then went on to complain about how Nullsec dominates the game.

It seems like you're basically saying that you're bad at the game, and it's someone else's fault.


There is a difference between overcoming adversity, and banging your head against the wall because you can't walk though it.

Your statement is an over simplification.


I can't possibly be oversimplifying anything because, again, you didn't actually articulate any problem. You just whined in a quasi-intelligible fashion, leaving the reader to fill in the blanks.

What we can deduce from your post:

1. You tried.

2. You failed.

3. You blame parties other than yourself for failing.

That's actually all of the actual content of your post. The rest is infantile, aimless whinging.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#30 - 2013-06-06 05:53:03 UTC
Sethose Olderon wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
You did not actually articulate your problem in any way.

Also, you mentioned that you had made several attempts to build an alliance and claim sov - a strictly Nullsec activity - and then went on to complain about how Nullsec dominates the game.

It seems like you're basically saying that you're bad at the game, and it's someone else's fault.


There is a difference between overcoming adversity, and banging your head against the wall because you can't walk though it.

Your statement is an over simplification.


Exactly, and when you've reached the point where you are only causing yourself more stress, the only recourse you have to is to quit, and burn your bridges behind you.

You'd be a lot less inclined to come back, if you gave away all your stuff...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#31 - 2013-06-06 06:03:31 UTC
The OP does raise the interesting question of what form "small holding" might take if CCP ever tries to make that possible.

At present the moment someone drops an SBU or TCU, they are practically guaranteeing half of nullsec visiting their doorstop within hours.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-06-06 06:04:32 UTC
Sethose Olderon wrote:
Agree, hence the pvp-arena, full nullsec creation comments. Pick the sandbox, or pick the themepark. CCP sits on the fence, and pisses off either end of the spectrum, because it's not the game each side wants.


There won't be an agreement due to the sandbox appeal.

I like grand scale PvP that lasts for days (original Alterac Valley type). Bigger the better. But EvE can't/won't support that type of gameplay. It's dungeon scale fleets for the most part.

That's like telling a raider raids are over, and better like dungeon crawling instead.

So what is left to appeal to, for me, are incursions. Closest to raid like play. But it isn't PvP. Straight

...Crafting and trade until 101 skills are trained to even fly in one...

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

TharOkha
0asis Group
#33 - 2013-06-06 06:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Sethose Olderon wrote:
. After several attempts to achieve the goal of building an Alliance and claiming sovereignty on its own terms I've realized this is impossible.


You cannot beat USA, China and Russia at the same time and take their land with small army. I think that you set your goals too high. If you want your own "land" you have to cooperate with the largest alliances OR make a bigger army (WH is also the answer - no hot drops and you can partially "lock" your WH - power of the even largest and strongest alliance is crippled to its knees here if you are doing it right). Simple equation.

Quote:
First, and foremost, Eve is dominated by Null-sec. Their culture, tactics, and influence is impossible to counter or side-step. Anyone who attempts to do so is curb-stomped and eliminated. Either you play by their rules, or you can take your toys and go home --the epitome of playground politics.


Eve is not dominated by null. If that would be truth, then we would not see constant btching from null-bears about "hisec needs to be nerfed" and vice versa.. There is a balance between those two worlds. Null has monopoly on many raw t2 materials like Technetium, hi-sec is industrial superpower.

Quote:
Secondly, CCP is in love with null-sec. All the members of the CSM are null-sec clowns bowing to the whims of their maniacal masters. CCP's never-ending love affair with the whole damn thing leads them to screw anyone or anything who has an alternative agenda. They incessantly push everyone towards null-sec, while having no consideration for the individual or for the small corporation or alliance.


CSMs are elected by players = null-bears are more united that's why they win every elections. Hi-sec bears are mostly individuals (like myself). Nobody pushing me to null-sec. I found myself several activities that can be run in hi-sec and they are quite profitable (no, not boring L4s), sometimes i go ninja rat to low/null, because i found that being "intruder" in deep alliance null-space is quite exciting. No I'm not alone, I'm in several groups and have lot of friends. Sometimes we go roam, sometimes we just chat. We are just individuals in several small indie corps. That is the beauty of SANDBOX. You don't need to be in large alliance to run your own business. (like Switzerland)

Quote:
Either you join a mega-alliance and become cannon-fodder or you really have no viable long-term path in Eve. Nullsec is the end-game of Eve.


Then perhaps you failed at understanding EVE. And that is sad for 7 years old char.
Lusty Wench
Nox Incurro
#34 - 2013-06-06 06:13:09 UTC
I admit I pay rent to (nullsec block) to live in a wormhole.

Every month they take more and more.

/sniffle
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#35 - 2013-06-06 06:27:13 UTC
I don't get it. When I discovered I couldn't take SOV with my small band of marauders I simply stopped desiring it. I took a moon instead. I went to lowsec and wspace and sought my own fortune. Solar and PL often roam our turf and think the place is theirs. But it's us out there really looking to ruin your day, kill your POS, blow up your POCO, murder your ship and get rich over the loot you drop. We kill the weak, the daring, the stupid, the brave, pretty much everyone that impedes upon our territory, can be countered, and is worth the sec hit. So my Alliance name isn't shown in miniscule print in the top left corner of your screen. Big ******* deal. I'm having a blast keeping what I can hold with this ragtag group of villains. Why didn't you ever settle for something of a smaller scale?
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#36 - 2013-06-06 06:28:32 UTC
Lusty Wench wrote:
I admit I pay rent to (nullsec block) to live in a wormhole.

Every month they take more and more.

/sniffle


That's terrible. I lived in a WH once, used to find exits into null to rat in other people's gardens. Cool
Emma d'Acques
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-06-06 06:41:12 UTC
I didn't know it was "Nerf Null Buff High Threads" Season already...

I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#38 - 2013-06-06 06:55:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
I love the smell of tears in the morning. So many clueless themeparkers posting in this thread, they don't understand what a sandbox mmo-rpg is.

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions...

The sandbox is about player interaction, interaction that affects how other players play and interact with both the game and other players. What you do not get to do in the sandbox is decide who you will not interact with. You can choose to interact with player A, even if player A would rather not interact with you. They have little say in the matter. They can make an effort to avoid you, but that in itself is an act of interaction. You have forced them to recognize you, take heed of you. This is what makes the butterfly effect possible in EvE Online.

For example, despite what themeparkers believe, missions and Incursions are a sandbox feature, the players doing it affect the economy and other players can invade the "dungeon" to steal loot, ninja salvage or even gank.

The Tears Must Flow

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-06-06 07:01:37 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Eve is not dominated by null. If that would be truth, then we would not see constant btching from null-bears about "hisec needs to be nerfed" and vice versa..


You forget this is a PvP game.

PvPers ***** and whine about everything...especially at any perception of the grass is greener on the other side. Roll

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Christopher AET
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-06-06 07:03:56 UTC
You don't get space by getting a bunch of rabble and leeroying into a big group. Power is gained slowly. Make contacts and gain respect. My corp went to null with 17 toons. We are now 130 toon pvp corp with another 130 toon industry alt corp. I run no less than four outposts a large POS network and a perhaps not impressive but respectable supercap fleet.


Eve owes you NOTHING. Power is not seized. It is gained via alliances and friends.

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.