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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#741 - 2011-11-05 02:54:10 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:
Aidan Brooder wrote:
Bomberlocks wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
....

We've been waiting for 5 years depending on how you count them and this is the first major feature that CCP has ever stated they are backing away from and "putting on ice indefinitely".

They claim they are doing this for at least two reasons.

1. No one really wanted WiS. This is clearly a lie.

2. They can't see any way to make it "compelling". Also a lie, there are hundreds of suggestions on the table that would be most welcome be a non-trivial portion of Eve.

So this is worse than most neglected features in Eve where CCP just quietly stops working on them, this one is being tossed out the dirgible. So why would I have any confidence it will ever get back in plan?

Issler

Issler, dearest, you need to lift the needle off that stuck record. If you feel so strongly about spacebarbies, then run for the next CSM on that platform. If you get in, you'll know that ken and barbie are indeed a valuable part of an internet spaceship game.


You were so missed at the Bob Marley look-alike... It is that way --->


Barbie would be proud, he coordinated the colour of his glasses with his hair.

And you and the genius you quoted wonder why no one takes the spacebarbie crowd seriously.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#742 - 2011-11-05 04:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
5 accounts and all the alts do not make a majority of EVE.

QFT, but of course I use your own argument against you. Even a goon can tell that 5x3=15 and thus your theory does not compute as the op alone has 109 likes at this time of writing.
Please do not make me dig up that post with the approximate like/dislike WiS proportion. Based on that count, the WiS above FiS portion of the ones that visit this thread are greater than than the No-WiS crowd. And that does not even include the WiS+ FiS crowd.

Seriously, this argument is getting old. For the love of EVE, come with something better than this 5 account + alts rubbish if you wish to convince neutrals/WiS lovers. You're not helping your side of the argument right now.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#743 - 2011-11-05 06:17:51 UTC
As an old bitter-vet at this point - WiS where we could interact with other players in avatar form would have been good for the RP/Immersion crowd (who tend to be rather loyal customers). It would give you something *else* to do on the days where you don't feel like undocking and going to blow stuff up between tending to industry jobs and market trading.

Instead we got:
- 18 months of near-zero improvements to FiS because 95% of the employees were working on WiS
- Racial CQs the size of small box and about as interesting as living inside said box
- Zero-interaction with other player's avatars
- The inability to get out and roam around the stations
- No gaming / gambling / drinking / social establishments
- A handful of clothes designs, not enough variety, and extremely overpriced
- Things that could not be manufactured by players (they should have been BPCs)

Ultimately, I still think WiS will be good for EVE, but not at the expense of stopping FiS development in its tracks. Which is what happened over the past 2 years, and part of why the players revolted over the summer.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#744 - 2011-11-05 12:30:54 UTC
Metis Laxon wrote:
Ayumi Hinoki wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Oswald Patsee wrote:
EVE is about flying in space. Anything else is a different game that just screws up EVE and flying in space.

This guy knows what's up.


Sure, trading, industry, exploration, planetary interaction and other fields of EVE Online just ruin the game.

Have you noticed that there are more skill groups than Gunnery, Spaceship Command or Missile Launcher Operation? Even if you don't use them, they exist and are the primary source of income and gameplay style for a lot of players.

Take a look at this, this, this, and also this if you have time, because EVE is not just about flying in space. Is a lot more than that.


I couldn't agree more here.



I am surprised you don't realize all of these activities are completely dependant on flying in space.

Industry: What are you making? Your making ships, modules for ships and places you can repair and fit those ships. If people could only look at those ships from their cq walkway and never actually "fly them in space" there would be *no industry.*
Are you making monocles and skirts? No that is reserved for the nex store and mt.

Trade: trading is the same. Yes you an trade monocles but mt is going to make it so you never wll have the depth of economic forces for the items intended to be used in a ship in space.

Planetory interaction: Again none of this would have a market if ships didn't fly in space.

exploration: is flying in space.

The thing is incarna is doomed for 2 reasons:

1) MT will always plague it
2) No combat.

Its all vanity. Its all dress up. If you like dress up thats ok but stop trying to claim incarna is something else.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Mekela
Vinyl Roid
#745 - 2011-11-06 00:09:37 UTC
WiS was not supposed to be MT it was supposed to bring a persona to the game. It was to make the game personal, at some point there were going to have some type of FPS. It was also going to bring some very fun activities to the game.

  • Gambling (people were talking about having poker rooms, + other inventive mini games you could gamble your isk away on),
  • mission creation (at one point they were talking about you being able to set your bartender to be able to give missions that you create),
  • Crafting (originally the clothing was going to be crafted and created by the players and sold at establishments.).
  • ect..


It was supposed to eventually bring the "Full Science Fiction Simulation to life". And then CCP got greedy, and not just a little greedy, very greedy. They scrapped all kinds of things so they could jump into the Micro Transition game and screw the promises and ideals they had for EVE and dumped this crap on us.

So when Incarna hit and the players were pissed the **** hit the fan. For the first time people left, and all they could see was that it happened when Incarna was released. Fear and panic set in, (Its not like we are in economic times when you can survive with a bad rap on you) so they immediately stopped what they were doing. (This is a good thing; they needed to re-evaluate WTF they were thinking). However I do believe they are still in panic mode and the FiS only crowd is giving them bad advice.

What advice do they need. - Go back to your core. (The core isn't FiS btw) The true core of what EVE was is Player controlled sci fi sandbox. They wanted the players to be able to control just about everything. They have always tried to get NPC seeded items out. The NEX is the antithesis of the core they had built this game on. They were GREEDY and in doing so destroyed their core.

Removing WiS is not fixing the problem it is actually backtracking and keeping you away from what your core creation was meant to be. CCP need to remember that when they were doing things to try to fulfill the core idea people came, and you got money. When you started doing things to get money that is when everything went sideways. I hope CCP remembers what they were doing originally and why. If they remember and go back to doing things to fulfill the core (This includes WiS) then EVE will be fine if they don't EVE is not going to make it and will fall.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#746 - 2011-11-06 01:52:57 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
As an old bitter-vet at this point - WiS where we could interact with other players in avatar form would have been good for the RP/Immersion crowd (who tend to be rather loyal customers). It would give you something *else* to do on the days where you don't feel like undocking and going to blow stuff up between tending to industry jobs and market trading.

Instead we got:
- 18 months of near-zero improvements to FiS because 95% of the employees were working on WiS
- Racial CQs the size of small box and about as interesting as living inside said box
- Zero-interaction with other player's avatars
- The inability to get out and roam around the stations
- No gaming / gambling / drinking / social establishments
- A handful of clothes designs, not enough variety, and extremely overpriced
- Things that could not be manufactured by players (they should have been BPCs)

Ultimately, I still think WiS will be good for EVE, but not at the expense of stopping FiS development in its tracks. Which is what happened over the past 2 years, and part of why the players revolted over the summer.



it wasn't 95% of CCP working on WiS, it was 95% of CCP working on other non-eve projects.

Issler
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#747 - 2011-11-06 02:12:27 UTC
I really truly hope CCP doesn't **** up the pricing a second time when they release all the new NeX items currently on SiSi.

How to win EVE
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#748 - 2011-11-06 03:30:06 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
I really truly hope CCP doesn't **** up the pricing a second time when they release all the new NeX items currently on SiSi.

No let's see if CCP continue to erode the sandbox by further pushing the NEX Store rather than incorporating those items into something that actually adds to the sandbox that is EVE.


CCP management got suckered by the 'get rich quick' microtransaction marketing hype. Hilmar, if you get an email saying you'll be rich if you invest in a Nigerian based company, ... DON"T GIVE THEM YOUR BANK ACCOUNT DETAILS ... just feel I need to let you know because you seem like a sucker when it comes to marketing bs.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Naari Talvanis
Doomheim
#749 - 2011-11-06 04:06:38 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
As an old bitter-vet at this point - WiS where we could interact with other players in avatar form would have been good for the RP/Immersion crowd (who tend to be rather loyal customers). It would give you something *else* to do on the days where you don't feel like undocking and going to blow stuff up between tending to industry jobs and market trading.

Instead we got:
- 18 months of near-zero improvements to FiS because 95% of the employees were working on WiS
- Racial CQs the size of small box and about as interesting as living inside said box
- Zero-interaction with other player's avatars
- The inability to get out and roam around the stations
- No gaming / gambling / drinking / social establishments
- A handful of clothes designs, not enough variety, and extremely overpriced
- Things that could not be manufactured by players (they should have been BPCs)

Ultimately, I still think WiS will be good for EVE, but not at the expense of stopping FiS development in its tracks. Which is what happened over the past 2 years, and part of why the players revolted over the summer.



This.
Now let's hope they give FiS some much needed love, and then complete what they intended to do with Incarna.
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#750 - 2011-11-06 04:23:33 UTC
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:

CCP management got suckered by the 'get rich quick' microtransaction marketing hype. Hilmar, if you get an email saying you'll be rich if you invest in a Nigerian based company, ... DON"T GIVE THEM YOUR BANK ACCOUNT DETAILS ... just feel I need to let you know because you seem like a sucker when it comes to marketing bs.

Your (deserved) sarcasm notwithstanding, you got a valid point. It has always bewildered me that some marketing gurus convinced Hilmar that people would buy $1,000 virtual pants, or that some demographic showed him Koreans are willing to accept a limited form of p2w. The latter may well be true, but someone should have pointed out the obvious: we're not all Koreans. From what I know of Korean society, it's pretty cut-throat, business-wise, and people are willing to do a lot more to get ahead of the other than over here. Not saying the rest of the world ain't cut-throat in its own right, but it should have been pretty clear that you can't simply translate a single Asian country's mentality 1 on 1 to gaming morale in the rest of the world.

In that regard, I think there are enough people at CCP with common sense -- just very few willing, or in the position, to tell their CEO. Which probably holds true for all major companies.

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#751 - 2011-11-06 04:28:52 UTC
In other news: the other 3 Captain's Quarters are on Singularity now! Check it out!

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Nypheas Azurai
Azimuth Enterprises
#752 - 2011-11-06 05:20:24 UTC
Mekela wrote:
It was supposed to eventually bring the "Full Science Fiction Simulation to life". m bad advice.
What advice do they need. - Go back to your core. (The core isn't FiS btw)

Pretty much this.

The biggest misconception I've seen by hardline FiS is that:
a) EVE = FiS
b) Incarna = WiS

WRONG

EVE has always been envisioned (see CCP's "future vision") as a sci-fi universe simulator. Perhaps it started life as FiS, but every component added afterwards forms the cohesive whole: FiS depends on the markets which depend on industry, which depends on mining and PI, and so forth and vice versa, and now the time has come when WiS is part of that whole. We've been waiting nearly 4 years for this, and any longer will put people off the game as it will appear in a stagnant state.

Like Albert the little 4-year old afraid of rats, CCP got a shock when they attempted a BAD version of WiS. Not only the shock, but now the hardcore FiS stand in real danger of reinforcing the wrong message to CCP: that FiS should come at the expense of all. This message only serves the FiS crowd and puts CCP in real danger of losing the rest of the playerbase and the majority of new & potential players who thrive on new content. The real message we need to send them is that, yes we need WiS, but as a general rule: don't let it be propelled by greed and don't make crap.

The take-away message here is:
a) EVE != FiS.
EVE = FiS + WiS + PI + S&I + Market + Mining + .... + = complete sci-fi sandbox

b) Incarna != WiS
Incarna = greed + shoddy work + poor feedback
WiS = the next missing part of the EVE universe, with integral and meaningful gameplay
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#753 - 2011-11-06 05:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Krios Ahzek
WIS should be a 3D version of Space Station 13 where we play generic corporate clones on a doomed research station.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M-JPH5SOmI

Seriously, if someone can make it work, it's CCP.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#754 - 2011-11-06 05:47:42 UTC
The thing is CCP will never drop the micro transaction idea, what ever WiS was or should have been is dead and gone, forever replaced by a platform for the item shop. Do not try to claim otherwise, have CCP changed the NeX store prices? This whole FiS focus is a sham, they are attempting to mollify the angry and disgruntled players by making some changes they should have made months/years ago.

CCP still want to go down the MT route, at least for Incarna. Personally I think anyone desperate for WiS now is crazy, you are just dropping your trousers and bending over and begging for some "Goosh goosh"

Incarna the way it was presented to us back in 2008 would have been interesting, player run shops selling player manufactured items would have added a new layer to the economy, socialising would have been interesting for some people to and though some people still hated the concept there wasnt so many WiS haters and they where not so vocal. But thats all gone now, no player made items its all NeX, no stores because there is nothing to sell and the socialising will be fail to, unless people really like going into a Michelin star resturant wearing a dollar store outfit. Lacking the best will mean people being mocked as space scrubs (haha you have the free clothes!), and while that doesnt matter to most sensible people it will matter to the kind of person whose highlight of their evening is to login to their spaceship game, wearing their space pants to play a game of space poker with their space friends. Needing the trendy "gear" is a big motivator for some MMO players.

You WiS whiners must be really desperate for CCP to rifle through your wallets.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#755 - 2011-11-06 06:17:12 UTC
Nypheas Azurai wrote:


EVE has always been envisioned (see CCP's "future vision") as a sci-fi universe simulator.


I believe you should look up 'envision' in the dictionary, it does not mean what you think it means.

I, for one, am glad that the future of EVE is not the same as in "future vision". It is Flying in Space.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#756 - 2011-11-06 06:44:33 UTC
Do you reckon there is any value is CCP asking the player base what they would like to see in Incarna?

Dunno if this has already been done.
Mekela
Vinyl Roid
#757 - 2011-11-06 06:44:42 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Nypheas Azurai wrote:


EVE has always been envisioned (see CCP's "future vision") as a sci-fi universe simulator.


I believe you should look up 'envision' in the dictionary, it does not mean what you think it means.

I, for one, am glad that the future of EVE is not the same as in "future vision". It is Flying in Space.


envision (ɪnˈvɪʒən) —vb (tr) to conceive of as a possibility, esp in the future; foresee

en·vi·sion  [en-vizh-uhn] Show IPA verb (used with object) to picture mentally, especially some future event or events: to envision a bright future.

Not quite sure why you think he got it wrong? For as long as I have played EVE (2006) it has envisioned (foresee's, pictured mentally) a future of being a total sci fi simulation.

Once again we see the stubborness of FiS only people. I really do like EVE online but if CCP goes with your idea of what EVE is then the version of EVE I was sold upon and the game I play and its potential of what it could have become has died and all that is left a husk of what it was.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#758 - 2011-11-06 07:06:33 UTC
Mekela wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Nypheas Azurai wrote:


EVE has always been envisioned (see CCP's "future vision") as a sci-fi universe simulator.


I believe you should look up 'envision' in the dictionary, it does not mean what you think it means.

I, for one, am glad that the future of EVE is not the same as in "future vision". It is Flying in Space.


envision (?n'v???n) —vb (tr) to conceive of as a possibility, esp in the future; foresee

en·vi·sion [en-vizh-uhn] Show IPA verb (used with object) to picture mentally, especially some future event or events: to envision a bright future.

Not quite sure why you think he got it wrong? For as long as I have played EVE (2006) it has envisioned (foresee's, pictured mentally) a future of being a total sci fi simulation.

Once again we see the stubborness of FiS only people. I really do like EVE online but if CCP goes with your idea of what EVE is then the version of EVE I was sold upon and the game I play and its potential of what it could have become has died and all that is left a husk of what it was.


Because a possible future is one of many outcomes for the future? Hint: WiS is not one of them.

When you say it, I would like to know what you refer to? As for myself, I heard about this mysterious sci-fi MMO from Iceland around 2001-2002 in PC Gamer that seemed to have more in common with David Braben's Elite than the undisputed king of sci-fi MMO at the time, Anarchy Online and I liked what I read so much that I started playing EVE May 2003. For me it is about space.

Nothing else.

Fair enough. Contract me your stuff and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#759 - 2011-11-06 08:26:12 UTC
Alpheias wrote:

Because a possible future is one of many outcomes for the future? Hint: WiS is not one of them.

When you say it, I would like to know what you refer to? As for myself, I heard about this mysterious sci-fi MMO from Iceland around 2001-2002 in PC Gamer that seemed to have more in common with David Braben's Elite than the undisputed king of sci-fi MMO at the time, Anarchy Online and I liked what I read so much that I started playing EVE May 2003. For me it is about space.

Nothing else.

Fair enough. Contract me your stuff and don't let the door hit you on the way out.


Wow. You actually think EVE is all about satisfying you.

Can I recommend that you go play second life instead? That was you can indulge your fantasy by creating a world that caters only to your particular interests.

They have flying penis' generators that you can use to indulge your FiS fantasies.
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#760 - 2011-11-06 08:40:04 UTC
Mekela wrote:

en·vi·sion [en-vizh-uhn] Show IPA verb (used with object) to picture mentally, especially some future event or events: to envision a bright future.

Not quite sure why you think he got it wrong? For as long as I have played EVE (2006) it has envisioned (foresee's, pictured mentally) a future of being a total sci fi simulation.

'It' (EVE) cannot envision; it's not a person who can form a mental image of things to come. You can envision some future for EVE, though.

Alpheias wrote:

Fair enough. Contract me your stuff and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You're getting a little ahead of yourself. Us WiS-lovers are still trying to get that door to open on the way in. P

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP