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Dev blog: Dual Character Training

First post First post First post
Author
Theodor Giumbix
Doomheim
#241 - 2013-05-28 13:02:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Theodor Giumbix
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP RubberBAND wrote:


We discussed showing the time remaining somewhere in game, but it's not really a timer we want to be showing anywhere in game.


Why not?

CCP RubberBAND wrote:

At least we were not convinced this is something players would want to see ticking down at all time. As we do not show account time remaining anywhere either.

Well, that time should be shown too. Why not? And the players would not see it "all the time", just when their character sheet is open. Even then they would not see a time ticking down, just the expiration date and time.


I'll bring this up with the team again, since a few people are asking about this in the thread, but it's basically to do with verisimilitude or what things belong/fit in game and what things belong/fit in account management pages. So far with the exception of PLEX, there is little in game which references account management and that's intentional.

Showing things which are removed from the EVE universe in gameplay or narrative terms is something we have tried to avoid, but like I said we will discuss this and see if the PLEX section or character sheet is the right place to potentially show timers like this. There are a number of different views within the team itself, so that's one of the reasons we have held off on a timer of some kind.

Feedback like this is great though as it helps us know what you guys wants.


Showing the remaining game time in character sheet "all the time" would be great. Showing the remaining game time in ingame Calendar "all the time" would be Awesome! For example I create New Events in my Calendar every time I renew my subscription to be able to see when it expires ingame without the need to log in Account Management every time I wanna check that.
Prophet Avater
Imperium Technologies
#242 - 2013-05-28 23:00:36 UTC
If you don't like it, don't use it., simples!
Firnas
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#243 - 2013-06-01 19:15:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Firnas wrote:
This essentially saves no money except the potential character transfer fee at the end for someone who trains alts and then consolidates them.

In fact, you can't save as much as you could if you were planning on having a long term alt and wanted to pay more than monthly.


Unless there is a discount, if one plex = one month, I don't really see how this is anything other than a bit of flexibility at the expense of even more expensive alts.

Unimpressed.


If you only need 1 month's training for the alt, then it's cheaper.



Still unimpressed.

You can do more things with a 14 year old dog with two legs than can be done with a one month alt.


Why sugar coat it? It's not more functionality, it's another product for monetary gain for CCP.


I'm not knocking it as that, but dressing it up as some very special thing you've rolled out for us is just not really it. This isn't top trump, it's boring dreck.

Show me something impressive.

This is like the meta game equivalent of Ambulation, and only slightly more useful than that awful idea was.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#244 - 2013-06-02 09:30:56 UTC
Well then it's a damb shame that CCP are sending armed ninjas round to your house to force you to use it, isn't it? In hindsight that part of dual training was a mistake I guess.

Also can you give me a list of professions that you have no interest in and ships you never fly so CCP can remove those top?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

dewamerah
Naval Defence Force
The Rogue Consortium
#245 - 2013-06-02 10:58:30 UTC  |  Edited by: dewamerah
what's the point if u still need PLEX to activate it?? its just same with having 2 account,the 2 account method is way much better,u can play 2 toons at the same time,but what the points with dual character training that need plex but won't add in games times,with 2 account yes you pay 1 extra plex but u have 2 account ,with this dual training u gonna pay 2 plex for 1 account, u guys do the math :)

please think about us from Malaysia that's need to pay 3-4 times more than u guys,yes we really need to pay 3-4 times more.
dewamerah
Naval Defence Force
The Rogue Consortium
#246 - 2013-06-02 11:10:16 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ichi Bomb wrote:
Arisidana, an almighty 2 month old alt is the first to admit she is a Lemming of CCP and afraid of the truth.... next...
The truth is Arisidana is right, there was a lot of BS in that post.

If you don't like it, don't use it. I'll be the first to admit it has a very limited and niche appeal, but it's there all the same. But it shouldn't ever be cheaper than a sub.

Oh and lol at the Plex ruining Eve. Lol


yea keep licking, he got the point there..
Beans Headio
Kamiya Dojo Mercenaries
#247 - 2013-06-02 11:31:25 UTC
First time Poster.

really looking forward to this Dual Training. as a new ish play will open up may doors for me.. i have 3 characters 2 of which on one account and im looking forward to the many new options this will give without paying for a constant account when i only wana skill a bit...

Really good work CCP
Loving Eve
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#248 - 2013-06-03 13:03:20 UTC
Hm....

I LIKE IT!
THX CCP.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Firnas
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#249 - 2013-06-03 18:06:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Well then it's a damb shame that CCP are sending armed ninjas round to your house to force you to use it, isn't it? In hindsight that part of dual training was a mistake I guess.

Also can you give me a list of professions that you have no interest in and ships you never fly so CCP can remove those top?



Wow, kid, did you make on the CSM on the back of that "bad boy" attitude?


I think what I was attempting to indicate, which went as far over your head as most of the jokes you heard in life that didn't involve scatological references, was that this is yet another area where CCP has demonstrated that they're focusing on things that get them money, not things that really improve our game.

If they want to do this, I say go to it, that's fine. My problem is with the rollout, the fanfare.

Mark my words, if they're rolling it out, it's because they believe you'll eventually train that second character up to the level where you decide you want to shift it off the account and set it up solo.

But hey, you keep on fanboi apologising for CCP every step of the way, just the sort of hardhitting CSM we can really use around here.
Ikranis De'Arth
Prospero Research and Development Holdings
#250 - 2013-06-04 04:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ikranis De'Arth
As a 20+ year MMO (MUDs mostly) developer/programmer, I can understand making micro transactions to help offset programming costs. I understand the semi-inflated price to have 2 toons on one account training at the same time as well. However, my only change to this as it is basically a convenience charge for skill-points would be the following;
Make it a bought number of skill points ie. (1,400,000 = 28 days at 50k SP per day) and allow them to be applied all at once with a maximum of two skill point buys per account.

Now I know people will flame and say this is an unbalance, but due to the offset of cost it would still only provide 2 months of training in a 1 month time frame and a mechanic could be put into place that prohibits the points being spent on the main character of the account. (The system would sanity check so that you could not apply more points to one character then the others. thus you would still have a primary toon with more SP then the others)

Possible Questions and Answers;
"But Ikranis you're making it pay to win!"
Not really as the mechanic is already there, buy PLEX, sell PLEX for ISK....

"It will unbalance the game because people will train up faster alts!"
Yes, you will train an alt instantly but will only be allowed to do it once a month, so long run, not so much.

"People will pay more to play and try to train up their alts faster to combat or whatever!"
Sure, Yes, the point.... More people will want to explore nullsec, PvP, etc.

"It will hurt large alliances and corps that have been here for years..."
No. The mega-corps and long time players will always have more ISK/Skill then the newbies, even if the newbies buy up SP's to offset time played.

CCP will do as they please, they created, control, and own it. This is just my suggestions.

Feel free to flame, or give constructive comments.
--Ikranis--
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2013-06-04 05:26:46 UTC
Cleksha wrote:
Ichi Bomb wrote:
This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)

I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.

I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .

CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.

500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....

PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!

Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?

Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!

Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!

I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....

PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!

If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.

The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!

Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!

Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideas….. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is ‘’supposedly’’ player driven?

This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.

Anyone that doesn’t like this post:

Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.

Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.

Can’t or won’t pay for ‘’REAL’’ alt accounts.

Don’t understand the ‘’true’’ underlying mechanics of the market, algorithms CCP uses, or the overall game itself.

Wants an easy way out.

Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is ‘’GREAT’’. (Incarna)

Needs something to disagree with.

Is a noob with no clue.

PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!

Also look at all the questions related to this PLEX BS.... It's mind boggling.. Can I swap my sisters account for my brothers account if its a Friday, or is the price of tea in China cheaper on the 3rd Saturday of every month? Well what if 3 squirrels eat 6 nuts on Wednesday, can I move my :06 seconds left on my DUAL TRAINING PLEX time to my mom's sock drawer on a Tuesday?

Give me an F'in break!

If the 11 pages I read before this is mankind at it's finest, we will never invent a ''real'' star gate!!!.... LO mother f'in L.

Send all the hate mails and posts you want… it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who can’t!
=)

Soo... When you Rage quit can I have your stuff?


He will put his stuff in your mouth.
Katana Seiko
Made in Germany
#252 - 2013-06-04 08:55:46 UTC
There's one feature that no one seems to really ask for.. If you have space in your queue, why not allow the other char to fill some space? Say 19 hours free. Add 9 hours with your second char, fill the rest with your char's 90 days freighter 5 skill.. Should not be THAT hard - or is it?
TriNitY Jewel
Snipes Incorporated UK
#253 - 2013-06-04 09:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: TriNitY Jewel
I like the idea of the dual character training, however I find it an inconvenience to have to log out of one toon to log into another toon on the same account.

Maybe in a future patch we could see the following:
Being able to have two toons logged in at the same time, so for example your main could be exploring/pvping etc... and you could then flick over to your other toon to carry on checking your orders for station trading and such like.

However, I understand CCP's reluctance to allow two toons to be logged in at the same time. But in order to differentiate between having two separate accounts and two toons logged in on the same account, the provision could be made that only one toon could be in space at any given time and the other must stay docked up.

This feature would only be available to players that are making active use of the dual character training programme, meaning that they have plexed there second toon.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#254 - 2013-06-04 13:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
The time runs like subscription time, it does not pause if you have no two characters in training.


It was all TL;DR past Page 2 but briefly:

CCP RubberBAND: Can you confirm that if Char's:

A+B are Dual Training and I pause training on B that I will be able to start training on C or on any combination of 2 Chars? E.g. A+B, A+C, C+B, C+A without an additional PLEX aside from the one required to start Dual Training?

Thanks.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#255 - 2013-06-04 13:36:06 UTC
Verlaine Glariant wrote:
Suddenly the "Logout to Character Selection Screen" turns even more needed than before.

I've been 7 years waiting for it. And counting...


See my Idea in my sig...throw some support behind it if your like it Smile
Arelorn
Daader-Gost Mining Academy
#256 - 2013-06-06 19:39:54 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
Haedris Gost wrote:
After reading the blog, I have this to comment;

Right now people running two clients on the same computer have to (ALT+TAB) to go to the second client - logged into a separate account - (the second instance of the eve game running in the background) to perform any actions with the second character, but they are both capable of doing things with each other at the same time,



First off who says people do this. You might but not all.

If you use multiple clients & don't put each client in window mode, then you are doing it wrong.

I have 4 monitors for my clients, so each monitor has its own client in window mode for it. I never ever, ever had to use (Alt+tab).


okaaaay, and for those of us who have only one monitor, how would you suggest they see another client that is running in the background??

(You're picking nits, and you completely missed the point that the second training character has no advantage of being able to interact and coordinate with the first character in the account - stay on topic please.)
Arelorn
Daader-Gost Mining Academy
#257 - 2013-06-06 20:23:25 UTC
Katana Seiko wrote:
There's one feature that no one seems to really ask for.. If you have space in your queue, why not allow the other char to fill some space? Say 19 hours free. Add 9 hours with your second char, fill the rest with your char's 90 days freighter 5 skill.. Should not be THAT hard - or is it?


It's definitely an idea worth repeating until someone clues into the fact that it's cheaper than buying a non-functional alt with it's head stuck full of skills in the loo.

"Hey! Help me mine this asteroid!"
"No."
"Why not? You trained up on exhumers."
"I can't."
"Why?"
"Because CCP nailed my ass to the can while I study. I can't go anywhere while I'm training."
"Sounds like you got detention, not a present."
"Can you hand me another PLEX? I'm about to run out of actual game time."
"No, I gave what I had left to you for training."
"So now when we run out we get what?"
"Nothing, you have to wait until I get another month paid before you can resume training."
"What??"
"Yeah, sucks huh? Want to help me mine?"
"I can't...."
Raven Smog
New Eden Big Lotto
#258 - 2013-06-07 21:39:49 UTC
This feature could have been more useful and a bigger cash cow if it allowed you to train a second skill on your main even if it had a small penalty.

Currently I would rather use a second account and if i play both when i am online and both are making money or helping me clear missions fast or one mines and the other is doing pvp i guarantee i could make enough isk using that second character to more then cover the transfer fee if i decided to quit training that character.


I won't be using it because it's a useless feature. a alt account that ca't logon and double your profits.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#259 - 2013-06-10 11:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Claire Raynor
This new multi training is awesome!!!

I have a new niche character - and they need to get good at one thing :P - Just one thing. One thing and some minimal fitting skills. And they are now getting good at that one thing!!!!

Thanks for the feature - I will be enjoying my Alt soon :)

Wickid!


EDIT: - I already run 5 Clients - and I wanted to try something new - this new feature enables me to do this - without this new feature I'd have had to buy in a character to one of my free slots. That is really expensive and overkill. This new method gives me a one month queue to get a character from a different race - I wanted a new race to try out in a new system to get a feel for a new bit of the EVE universe - and I wanted to try this without interupting my other skill queues. If I like the new race and I'll be able to get Assault frigates inside of a month - then I can think about what I will do - it gives me a new training queue for prototyping stuff with. I'm using this feature to enable me to not have yet another account to manage but to have a "semi-disposable" character which won't interupt my other character's queues and will enable me to try out different things in different places.

I don't see as this new account will ever need a full permenant skill queue running - And I don't see how this new account will give me an advantage over anyone else. After two months - I should have a character with mid level fitting skills and OK Frigate firepower. I will enjoy this. And might enroll them in FW. A cheap implant-less clone - Cheap ships - Just load up into that char and go and play frigates - all without interupting Claire's queue.

This is cheaped - £16 *2 - than buying a Toon - and still having to interupt Claire's queue to tailor it a bit more. . . So I don't see it as CCP profiteering.
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
#260 - 2013-06-10 12:09:58 UTC
I think I would consider using it if a plex bought me 2 months of alt training. As it stands, it seems like poor value to me because it's the same cost as funding 2 accounts, but with half the utility (I can only use one of the characters at once).

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".