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Dev Blog: Odyssey Ship Balancing

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#41 - 2013-06-04 00:55:14 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

So basically your saying the Dominix is a PvE ship. I don't like the idea of balancing a ship based on another mechanic overhaul (drones) that is not even remotely on the horizon. Anyways, enjoy your ratting ship. I will stick with other battleships that are combat capable.


until the drone revamp yeah you are correct. drone boats will be good for pve and small gang warfare.

though i do not share your pessimism about the work being done in the background. i guess its just an assumption on my part that the rewriting of the drone code is already in progress.

afaik sentry drones for pvp in fleets is for carriers due to carriers ability to keep pumping them out en mass. if you restricted the size of a carriers drone bay by making a fighter bay and then a limited drone bay you would kill slowcat fleets.

but once drone ui is revamped and legacy code updated then drone will be useful in larger pvp setups.

the ability to drop drones on grid and then being able to warp around and not loose control will give them great versatility.

Moreover the ability to repair the drones inside their drone bay will give them resilience.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-06-04 00:56:38 UTC
With the whole combat/attack cruiser changes. Has this made it a separate overview setting as well like it did with the battlecruisers? Also will this be the same for battleships as well? (cause that's the most annoying part since there's really no reason why you would have attack ships but not combat ships on your overview so splitting them up in the overview settings is just an annoyance more than anything)
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-06-04 01:20:07 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
afaik sentry drones for pvp in fleets is for carriers due to carriers ability to keep pumping them out en mass. if you restricted the size of a carriers drone bay by making a fighter bay and then a limited drone bay you would kill slowcat fleets.

That is what I suggest. We can only hope Fozzie and Rise do something like this when they arrive at the capital ship balance phase.
Traska Gannel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-06-04 02:29:26 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
I thought the resistance change had been slowed down to just battleships? Is it going to be for all ships?

Also you all are pretty awesome.


All ships with a resistance bonus indeed.


So ... with this change you nerf the Nighthawk, Vulture and several other ships that have not yet been through the re-balancing process. It would seem to me to make more sense to make this change to ships that you have already rebalanced and assessed the impact of this change and not simply apply it across the board. Many of the ships with this type of resist bonus give up offensive bonuses for this defensive one ... and in most cases the extra 5% resist this grants has not proved either unbalancing or game breaking ... so it would be nice to get some sort of explanation of the reasoning behind nerfing so many ships without compensating them or making sure they are appropriately balanced after this change.

Vince Snetterton
#45 - 2013-06-04 04:46:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
That's 107 ships either added or comprehensively rebalanced in the last year.

Let's see if we can beat that next year.


How about no.

How about you slow down, let the players test these massive sweeping changes, and see what ships you have wrecked , what ships you have made OP, fix those, and THEN look at fixing T2 and pirate ships.

Just because you were in PL does not make you the expert on every ship in the game.
Sights Silo
Gods Holy Light Bringing You're Penance
#46 - 2013-06-04 05:59:18 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
That's 107 ships either added or comprehensively rebalanced in the last year.

Let's see if we can beat that next year.


How about no.

How about you slow down, let the players test these massive sweeping changes, and see what ships you have wrecked , what ships you have made OP, fix those, and THEN look at fixing T2 and pirate ships.

Just because you were in PL does not make you the expert on every ship in the game.


shut the **** up you ******* ******
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#47 - 2013-06-04 06:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Fozzie, there was a feedback in XL weapons thread, which you ignored.
According to my calculations, XL blasters and autocannons have exactly the same range performance. Is that done intentionally? Why? Are there plans to trim sub-capital AC range, or extend subcap blasters range?
Also, XL lasers are shortest of them all, and there is no even Scorch to compensate. What do you think about it?

XL guns range performance graph (and sub-cap weapons for comparison):
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1305/guns2.PNG
olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-06-04 07:08:50 UTC
question what do you mean by reimbursed . If its just a straight skill point return on battle cruiser and destroyer than you are screwing over a lot of people. what happened to if you could fly it before you can fly it now.
Lord Echon
Star-Crossed Enterprises
#49 - 2013-06-04 07:13:17 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
question what do you mean by reimbursed . If its just a straight skill point return on battle cruiser and destroyer than you are screwing over a lot of people. what happened to if you could fly it before you can fly it now.


Nothing, actually. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74234
Kerdrak
Querry Moon
#50 - 2013-06-04 08:19:31 UTC
Alain Colcer wrote:
I would like to raise a question regarding the extra-materials.

Extra-materials are not affected by ML research (less wastage on the BPO) and obviously are not returned when reprocessing the item, but those measures are meant to prevent players "creating" an influx of minerals in the game by building pre-patch and reprocessing post-patch.

Would CCP eventually remove the extra materials so if 2 years down the read i reprocess, say a hyperion, i could get the minerals including the extra materials?


This is interesting, CCP please!
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-06-04 08:22:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie, Rise or Ytterbium, I'd like to point out that after about two weeks of flying on Singularity, I still haven't seen an effective Navy Osprey.

I'm struggling to find an utility for it.

Can't fit HAMS, MWD and 2 Meta 4 LSEs.

Even with HAMs, it never reaches more than 420 DPS or so.

2 drones are useless and will be forgotten considering the very poor damage delivered by 2 light drones.

It's fast. And that's about it. There is nothing great about that ship except that it's fast. DPS is very poor, PWG is very tight...
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#52 - 2013-06-04 08:34:11 UTC
Personally I hate a lot of the new ship changes.

Sure the ships are more balanced. But they are more BORING - because you can only fit them one way.


Did you guys ever READ the old description of the Maelstrom? It had wonderful character - now you have a more techically efficient pvp projectile battleship, but at the cost of some of the style that made the game so great.

If I want to put cruise missiles on my APOC or Mael ... I should be allowed to. Especially Minmintar ships, which are meant to be the last word in how to bolt bits onto other bits to make a ship.


Rest in Peace the Blasphemy, my Cruise Missle / T2 Beam Laser fit Maelstrom. Never more will your like take to the skies ...
... unless I pay to win by buying PLEX to get the super-duper-pirate cruiser, right?


Seriously, not even kidding. I am slowly seeing EVE become pay-to-win. Stop it, stop it now CCP. Or remove the monthly subscription and move to an honest pay to win model like World of Tanks, rather than the "he who buys PLEX wins" model of ship design we see now.

Pirate ships are all well and good. But if you live in nullsec, you should be able to get the prints and build them in nullsec. Currently, that isn't a credible possibility. Ever wondered why nearly everyone plays in high-sec? You need to run missions to get the "I WIN" ships these days.... and that makes me really sad. EVE is 10 years old, and the designers are going backwards in terms of supporting nullsec-based gameplay with the latest downgrades of t1 ships.

P.s. tried a rifter vs a cynnabal lately? or indeed any t1 cruiser or interceptor vs a cynnable? It's all over before you even start. So how do you win in PvP? Simple, buy PLEX and buy Pirate ships. Welcome to the Pay to win Decade.
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#53 - 2013-06-04 08:37:01 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
CCP Fozzie, Rise or Ytterbium, I'd like to point out that after about two weeks of flying on Singularity, I still haven't seen an effective Navy Osprey.

I'm struggling to find an utility for it.

Can't fit HAMS, MWD and 2 Meta 4 LSEs.

Even with HAMs, it never reaches more than 420 DPS or so.

2 drones are useless and will be forgotten considering the very poor damage delivered by 2 light drones.

It's fast. And that's about it. There is nothing great about that ship except that it's fast. DPS is very poor, PWG is very tight...



Navy Osprey = waste of loyalty points. That simple. Currently a pointless ship.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#54 - 2013-06-04 08:38:33 UTC
A myriad of? Seriously Ytterbium?
Decoy Decoy
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-06-04 08:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Decoy Decoy
All the talk has been of the racial skills and faction bc's, but I have a concern of a more mundane nature.

I seem to recall the maxim "If you can fly it before you can fly it after" being asserted for ship changes.

My industrial character can fly a fenrir, with the advanced spaceship* skill at 2. It is an alt of my main.

Freighters:

Now requires Advanced Spaceship Command 5 instead of 1.
Racial Industrial skill requirement reduced from 5 to 3.

Reading the above, I will now not be able to fly my fenrir? Or I am to pay 15$ to dual train so I can use something I could use before? Unfortunately my main is committed to something for his business atm so I can't afford to stop his training. Yet now I will not be able to haul my resources etc. :(

Please tell me I've missed something and I will still be ok...

*edited typo, apologies.
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-06-04 08:54:23 UTC
Decoy Decoy wrote:
All the talk has been of the racial skills and faction bc's, but I have a concern of a more mundane nature.

I seem to recall the maxim "If you can fly it before you can fly it after" being asserted for ship changes.

My industrial character can fly a fenrir, with the advanced spaceship* skill at 2. It is an alt of my main.

Freighters:

Now requires Advanced Spaceship Command 5 instead of 1.
Racial Industrial skill requirement reduced from 5 to 3.

Reading the above, I will now not be able to fly my fenrir? Or I am to pay 15$ to dual train so I can use something I could use before? Unfortunately my main is committed to something for his business atm so I can't afford to stop his training. Yet now I will not be able to haul my resources etc. :(

Please tell me I've missed something and I will still be ok...

*edited typo, apologies.



If you had read the talk about it.. It goes like this.. If your character HAD the skill, he will keep it. and can continue to train it. So if your toon already had the Minmatar Freighter skill trained, he will be able to fly the ship.
Decoy Decoy
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-06-04 09:04:44 UTC
Quote:

If you had read the talk about it.. It goes like this.. If your character HAD the skill, he will keep it. and can continue to train it. So if your toon already had the Minmatar Freighter skill trained, he will be able to fly the ship.

Ah ha! Major derp, and thank you very much for the clarification. I had blurred the line of using the skill to adding the skill. I was thinking if you lost the skill that a further skill relied on that the secondary skill would not be in order.

Thanks again. Apologies for the oversight on my part.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2013-06-04 09:49:04 UTC
Lol, had a look at the changes...
Except the explo and other non-combat things, it's...how it is.
But let's not get into too long texts:
2/3. Good/Bad. Pay more/Be less effective. Bad news anulate the good news. And win.
Fail to see the necesity of at least 70% of shipchanges, gamewise. Shure, there's...out of game arguments, like plex selling and so on. And please don't serve me the balance/imbalance/sh*tbalance thing, after releasing navy BC's , better than regular ones ever were. And also 5x better priced. Blink (Welcome to PAY TO WIN)
Don't know what to say, really. This improves nothing. Sometimes we were forced to scratch our right ear with the left foot. Now we will be forced to scratch the left ear with the right foot. Where's the difference? It's not cool to try cutting steel with a icecream. No matter how many idiotic nerds say it is.
This game has countless oportunities given. But none except one encouraged. Sounds to me like a pervers drunk God giving himself the famous Apple out to the snake. Never having the b*lls to give it himself to Eve (nice cohincidence, eh?).
As i stated countles times: this used to be a awesome game. Please bring this back.Sad
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#59 - 2013-06-04 10:59:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
That's 107 ships either added or comprehensively rebalanced in the last year.

Let's see if we can beat that next year.


There are about 270 ships in game (counting all the exciting special ships like for example the Goru's shuttle) so it is technically possible. Go for it. Blink

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#60 - 2013-06-04 11:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
Quote:
Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills are being split in four racial versions and being reimbursed


This is a huge red flag for me. Are you saying that when I log in, I cannot fly any of my battlecruisers or destroyers? I live in a wormhole, and dont have the luxury of just flying by jita whenever I want to fix this... Hell, what happens if someone logged off in a battlecruiser or destroyer?

I also noticed there seems to be no mention of the rattlesnake that one of my characters is currently training for, or the other faction (not navy) battleships... Maybe they where discussed in a previous blog I forgot about...