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HG Crystal Set worth it for PVE?
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Yaro Shardani
Yukon 1800
Blue Loot Not Included
#1 - 2013-06-03 18:34:35 UTC
I am wondering if buying and using a HG Crystal Set would be worth it in my Faction Machariel.
I am in a safe system, and unless I DC/Awoxer, I should be fine.
I active tank my Machariel with Gist B - Type X Large Shield Booster.
Would this help me in the really really long run?
I am up against Angel Havens and Sanctums.

-

Yaro
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2013-06-03 18:45:25 UTC
Do you actually need any more tank? Would having more tank allow you to fit more gank?

Those are pretty much the only relevant concerns here. If you can get more gank on, crystals might be worth it. But I suspect there's not a whole lot more you can do to kill faster in a Machariel. Maybe add a tracking computer or two to make up for reduced TE efficiency?
Yaro Shardani
Yukon 1800
Blue Loot Not Included
#3 - 2013-06-03 18:47:34 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Do you actually need any more tank? Would having more tank allow you to fit more gank?

Those are pretty much the only relevant concerns here. If you can get more gank on, crystals might be worth it. But I suspect there's not a whole lot more you can do to kill faster in a Machariel. Maybe add a tracking computer or two to make up for reduced TE efficiency?

I would use them to maybe not have to use such an expensive booster and fit more gank.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#4 - 2013-06-03 18:50:45 UTC
The best use of a crystal set is for downgrading your booster. I'm a fan of crystals.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Yaro Shardani
Yukon 1800
Blue Loot Not Included
#5 - 2013-06-03 19:00:44 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The best use of a crystal set is for downgrading your booster. I'm a fan of crystals.

-Liang

But is it worth it having to spend 2.5bil?
sera leonza
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-06-03 19:06:27 UTC
Yaro Shardani wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The best use of a crystal set is for downgrading your booster. I'm a fan of crystals.

-Liang

But is it worth it having to spend 2.5bil?


Your ship can be scanned and made a target with [insert 1 billion isk booster here] visible.

Crystals allow you downgrade massively while retaining the same tank.

IMO yes they are worth it 'IF' you plan on using them a lot and don't want to make your ship a loot piñata.
Yaro Shardani
Yukon 1800
Blue Loot Not Included
#7 - 2013-06-03 19:09:15 UTC
sera leonza wrote:
Yaro Shardani wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The best use of a crystal set is for downgrading your booster. I'm a fan of crystals.

-Liang

But is it worth it having to spend 2.5bil?


Your ship can be scanned and made a target with [insert 1 billion isk booster here] visible.

Crystals allow you downgrade massively while retaining the same tank.

IMO yes they are worth it 'IF' you plan on using them a lot and don't want to make your ship a loot piñata.

How long if it takes me 25 min to run a Haven would it take to earn them back?
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-06-03 19:32:29 UTC
If you only ever active shield tank then a Crystal set can definitely be worth it. If you passive shield and/or armor tank as well then you might actually want to consider a Halo set instead. A reduction in the damage you take isn't as flashy or immediately recognizable as a boost to your tanking modules, but it works for (m)any ship(s) with no muss or fuss.

As a secondary bonus it could, depending on your setup, make probing you down just the teensiest bit more annoying.
[Tengu, HAM copy 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Not necessarily the "best" build I'm sure, and I imagine some folks would choke on the booster. I'm sure it would still, when combined with a Halo set, be a little annoying for someone to probe down. Just a little though.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-06-03 19:43:26 UTC
he flies a mach

Art of Explosions
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2013-06-03 19:46:05 UTC
Its worth it, lets you fit more gank and make your ship less of a gank magnet. Just remember once you have them.. never .. ever autopilot anywhere in a pod or even a shuttle.. I lost a 600mil pod once while auto piloting in as shuttle through HS.
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#11 - 2013-06-03 20:03:06 UTC
Yaro Shardani wrote:
I am wondering if buying and using a HG Crystal Set would be worth it in my Faction Machariel.
I am in a safe system, and unless I DC/Awoxer, I should be fine.
I active tank my Machariel with Gist B - Type X Large Shield Booster.
Would this help me in the really really long run?
I am up against Angel Havens and Sanctums.

-

Yaro



"I am up against Angel Havens and Sanctums" = 0.0

So short answer no
Long answer - if you ever get caught you will lose your ship and your pod. If you are running fine as it is now, then I wouldnt worry about it. Just keep doing what you're doing.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-06-03 22:27:42 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
he flies a mach


Irrelevant. I was aiming more at the humor of trying to use a Halo set to avoid probes than a legitimate ship setup.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-06-03 22:40:51 UTC
Shereza wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
he flies a mach


Irrelevant. I was aiming more at the humor of trying to use a Halo set to avoid probes than a legitimate ship setup.


surely that means what you posted is irrelevant then?

Art of Explosions
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-06-04 01:56:11 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
surely that means what you posted is irrelevant then?


No. A might link to B, and B might link to C, but that does not mean that A and C are linked, and the relevance of one does not necessarily have any impact whatsoever on the relevance of the other.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#15 - 2013-06-04 03:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: DeLindsay
1) Your Clone cannot be scanned to determine if you have zero Imps or 5 Billion ISK worth. Someone having a smaller than normal Shield Booster fitted doesn't automatically mean HG Crystals, maybe the player was skimping on ISK.

2) HG Crystals allow you to either drop down a size or 2 of Shield Booster, or keep the XL (he's in a Mach) and drop it down to only (3) tank modules total. You only have to pulse that XL even in the bonus room of AE with HG Crystals (well over 1000 DPS).

3) There is no such thing as a safe or pretty safe system to run LvL 4's in High sec, or plexing in a dead end system in Null. If people want to pop you they will, period. There are dozens of KM's, some this past month, where over 100 ships suicided a JF (over 300K EHP) in a 1.0 (Concord shows up after the first volley, so they insta popped those JF's).

4) ALL Pirate BS's are loot pinatas. The hull alone on a Mach is 1.4 billion. So it's moot to say having a billion ISK Shield Booster makes you MORE of a gank target. You're a gank target by simply undocking in a Pirate BS.


Long and short of it, I wouldn't bother with them unless you can SERIOUSLY shave time off your runs and/or have SERIOUS Corp/Alliance backup that you trust absolutely.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-06-04 03:35:28 UTC
Shereza wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
he flies a mach


Irrelevant. I was aiming more at the humor of trying to use a Halo set to avoid probes than a legitimate ship setup.



Unprobable fitting was legit enough to warrant ccp patching it current levels of hard to find. Lots of people whined about it, ccp actually changed this.

People made billions on these setups..and still do with hard to find. If done right a prober is still better off looking for the site/ca the players is in and not the actual player. Your tengu example especially....no drones (which wreck the setup with their mwd blooms).

And why halo and not talons. Talons help fight ecm.



Back to op....basic question I have is how good is your intel channels? Are your peeps good with reporting or do they miss a few bogeys? If you are in "safe" space and generally know well in advance if a roam is inbound....why spend the isk if you generally get all the time in world to safe up.

Also factor in while the argument it saves on the booster is valid. Whatever roamers caught you when slow...are probably going for pod. May lose the crystals as well if unlucky.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-06-04 06:30:45 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Unprobable fitting was legit enough to warrant ccp patching it current levels of hard to find. Lots of people whined about it, ccp actually changed this.


Hence my post being more tongue-in-cheek than serious. IIRC a 1.14 sensor:sig ratio is about the current "cap" for minimizing your chances of being probed. That setup manages 1.1848 hence me saying it might be "a little annoying" to probe down.

Zan Shiro wrote:
And why halo and not talons. Talons help fight ecm.


A couple reasons.
#1 Halos can reduce incoming damage thereby reducing the amount of tank you need and letting you fit for more gank. Taking less damage across every mission instead of being able to shoot a bit more often only in Guristas missions is more important to me.

#2 Halos are applicable no matter what ship you fly while Talons are a waste if you don't fly a ship that uses gravimetric sensors. I can, and do, fly ships that use every sensor type making implants that are applicable to all of them more valuable than ones that are useful only to some of them. It's part of why even though I tend to fly shield tankers more than armor I went for a Halo set instead of a Crystal set.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#18 - 2013-06-04 06:56:00 UTC
Pithum C-Type + 2 Hardeners on a Tengu is already overkill for tanking, no need for halos, and there's no need to make yourself hard to scan unless you're running missions in hostile space.
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-06-04 09:02:05 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
and there's no need to make yourself hard to scan unless you're running missions in hostile space.

Obviously you have never been to Jita.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#20 - 2013-06-04 12:17:09 UTC
Yaro Shardani wrote:
sera leonza wrote:
Yaro Shardani wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
The best use of a crystal set is for downgrading your booster. I'm a fan of crystals.

-Liang

But is it worth it having to spend 2.5bil?


Your ship can be scanned and made a target with [insert 1 billion isk booster here] visible.

Crystals allow you downgrade massively while retaining the same tank.

IMO yes they are worth it 'IF' you plan on using them a lot and don't want to make your ship a loot piñata.

How long if it takes me 25 min to run a Haven would it take to earn them back?


Nullsec. Don't bother.


EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
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