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CCP please do not compensate !!!
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Gotch Urarse
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#41 - 2013-06-03 18:20:30 UTC
Is the potential of 50-100k SP, or similar, really worth the forums tears? Stuff happens. The only reason I'm posting is I'm at work. If I wasn't I'd be enjoying New Eden.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#42 - 2013-06-03 18:20:42 UTC
Zenith Huunuras wrote:
I can't really stand this whole "it's not their fault" mentality. They're running a business, and they didn't take the needed precautions against a quite likely threat. It's not like a volcano blew up or something.
Actually, it's quite a LOT like a volcano blew up. NO ONE can prevent an external attack. Not mega-coprorations. Not militaries. Not governments. Not even God.
They can only control how they respond to an external attack. Which, in this case is: Effectively.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Freya Kaundur
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-06-03 18:21:58 UTC
at max according to the eula the only compensation that is available is a refund of your sub fee for the affected time. so lets say that was 24 hours. so that's what 50 cents. you are more then welcome to petition to get that back. but cpp did everything that is required of them and more. jut be glad someone out there does not have your account or CC information. and do people realize how ddos work. if a server accepts connections you cannot defend against them. and ddos are meant to break small holes in security for hackers to enter.
Karean Frintezaa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-06-03 18:22:44 UTC
And it is awsome they compensate the victims "us" for this attack.

Dont see the reason why not to...
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#45 - 2013-06-03 18:24:37 UTC
i'm not a fan of CCP giving out SP for something like the servers being down while under attack. CCP took the correct action and we should all benefit from their time and effort in this regard. expecting additional compensation because they did the right thing is absurd and unwarranted. granted, i'd feel a bit different if they were compromised and my personal information was leaked, but that didn't happen. i would rather not be able to play eve for a day than have my personal details compromised because they were rushing to get the servers back online.
Mara Villoso
Long Jump.
#46 - 2013-06-03 18:25:26 UTC
It doesn't matter whose fault it is or why they did what they did. I subscribe, my subscription was interrupted, and I was kept from playing the game for an extended period of time. I don't care about skill points, but I definitely care about subscription time. Add into it that I was supposed to reup my monthly using PLEX yesterday, but I couldn't because the game was down, which means I paid real money for my next month of play time as a direct result of this event.

As a side note, somewhere in the dev text it mentions specifically the attack "took advantage of an exploit" to conduct the attack. That sounds a LOT like someone left a hole somewhere that was exploited.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#47 - 2013-06-03 18:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Major 'Revolver' Ocelot wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Steve Spooner wrote:
CCP is responsible for server security, which in this instance wasn't secure.

Let's see... Account information lost? No. Personal information compromised? No. Financial information stolen? No.

Seems to me that you don't understand what consitutes 'security.' Seems to me, CCP does.


Would it still not be CCP's fault if the above occurred? Will you still not feel entitled to some compensation if the information you listed was attained by a third party?

You may not, if that's the case you are a better person than I. Though I won't believe you.
IF security were actually breached, then yes, I would want some form of recompense - they'd have failed at upholding their end of the bargain. But not for the SP that was lost to the attack - that would've been lost in any case. I'd want recompense for the failure to uphold security.

But... Since CCP *did* uphold security, I've got no beef with them.
Now, show me the tool-heads that launched the attach, and I'll have something different to say - to them.

Mara Villoso wrote:
It doesn't matter whose fault it is or why they did what they did. I subscribe, my subscription was interrupted, and I was kept from playing the game for an extended period of time.

Fine. Then take it up with the individual(s) responsible for the attack. Good luck finding them... But if you *do,* let me know - I have something I'd like to say to them...

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Cellita Nardieu
The Clandestine Operations Project
#48 - 2013-06-03 18:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cellita Nardieu
"What do you expect? How about you just STFU and let CCP decide whether to compensate people or not, instead of posting on here like a little tard? You bring it on yourself..."

In the same time Eve is only a game, loosing a day of skill won't kill you ...
floating in space
#49 - 2013-06-03 18:30:48 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Zenith Huunuras wrote:
I can't really stand this whole "it's not their fault" mentality. They're running a business, and they didn't take the needed precautions against a quite likely threat. It's not like a volcano blew up or something.
Actually, it's quite a LOT like a volcano blew up. NO ONE can prevent an external attack. Not mega-coprorations. Not militaries. Not governments. Not even God.
They can only control how they respond to an external attack. Which, in this case is: Effectively.


You can do things to mitigate the risk / damage of of a DDOS. There are services which exist for this exact purpose. Taking all the servers down and running a full diagnosis may have been "effective" but it wasn't efficient or really necessary.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#50 - 2013-06-03 18:31:08 UTC
at least we are not negative SP like the dust bunnies, lol.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Freya Kaundur
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-06-03 18:31:40 UTC
people should really read the eula.
Karean Frintezaa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-06-03 18:33:37 UTC
But its like their job to resolve issues like so, i wouldnt expect less...


What makes it so good? Even tho i lost my day of to play EVE. Again i know its not their fault, but its a company, certain etics must be present to satisfy client needs.


Tell me what was so great? The 24h i had to wait?


Kind of hard to steal account info through Denial of service...

DOS is like having 1000s people outside your door and they wont let anyone in.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-06-03 18:33:56 UTC
Mara Villoso wrote:
It doesn't matter whose fault it is or why they did what they did. I subscribe, my subscription was interrupted, and I was kept from playing the game for an extended period of time. I don't care about skill points, but I definitely care about subscription time. Add into it that I was supposed to reup my monthly using PLEX yesterday, but I couldn't because the game was down, which means I paid real money for my next month of play time as a direct result of this event.

As a side note, somewhere in the dev text it mentions specifically the attack "took advantage of an exploit" to conduct the attack. That sounds a LOT like someone left a hole somewhere that was exploited.



There are also no warranties provided with your subscription. Though luck, suck it up buttercup.
floating in space
#54 - 2013-06-03 18:34:08 UTC
Freya Kaundur wrote:
people should really read the eula.


Here is your sticker Attention no need to suck up to CCP anymore.
Enmesharra
Giggle Inc
#55 - 2013-06-03 18:34:30 UTC
i have to agree with OP. I really want that sweet sweet free SP, but in this case I doubt its warranted.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-06-03 18:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Technically, you lose out more than just SP. I was going to log in yesterday and earn some isk. Maybe 100 million or so as my usually daily income, but alas the servers were down.

That's like maybe a $3 dollars worth of real money towards a plex. So that's what it cost me yesterday. I'm sure there are people who earn a lot more.

I'm not particularly mad though as I didn't really want to play yesterday.

Either way think of it this way. Its technically CCP's fault for having a system vulnerable to a DDOS attack. They could have developed a better load bearing system that would have been more resilient.

I suppose that is being cynical, but again I don't really care because I didn't really want to play yesterday.

CCP is being nice and giving you compensation, so tough.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#57 - 2013-06-03 18:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Robert Saint wrote:

CCP's fault

1) Make sure the software exploits are covered to protect your client database and their personal information. This usually means you hire an outside firm to attempt to hack your systems to find exploits. I was on the Sony network when the accounts were hacked and it was absolutely Sony's fault. To close your eyes to crime is not responsible to your client base.

Bull Faeces. Complete and unmitigated Bull Faeces.
No one. NO ONE. Can stop an external attack from happening. Not church, not state, not mega-corp, not even Apple or Microsoft. If your network accepts any form of external connection, it can be attacked. Period. End of subject.

What a corporation can control is whether or not the attack can succeed. This attack failed. Sure they knocked CCP off the line for a chunk of time - But that's how DCA (DDoS) work - And no one has ever found a way to shut down a DCA short of law-enforcement action. What the real threat and attack was, was against the backend services, which CCP successfully protected.

Sony let the attackers in. CCP did not.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Julius Rigel
#58 - 2013-06-03 18:44:49 UTC
Obunagawe wrote:
ITT: Old players who already have all the SP they'll ever need, trying to keep new players down and stunt their growth.
If I could give my unspent SP to a new player I would gladly do that.

Obunagawe wrote:
If you really cared about CCP you wouldn't be trying to control them
Can I elect you to the CSM? It would put us a step closer to getting rid of that circus. Lol

Do YOU like to undock?
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#59 - 2013-06-03 18:45:08 UTC
floating in space wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Zenith Huunuras wrote:
I can't really stand this whole "it's not their fault" mentality. They're running a business, and they didn't take the needed precautions against a quite likely threat. It's not like a volcano blew up or something.
Actually, it's quite a LOT like a volcano blew up. NO ONE can prevent an external attack. Not mega-coprorations. Not militaries. Not governments. Not even God.
They can only control how they respond to an external attack. Which, in this case is: Effectively.


You can do things to mitigate the risk / damage of of a DDOS. There are services which exist for this exact purpose. Taking all the servers down and running a full diagnosis may have been "effective" but it wasn't efficient or really necessary.
This is a tactical question. While yes, there are some things that can be done, they're not always practical, or even reasonable. It's all part of the cost / risk / benefit calulation. We may quibble with the final tactics CCP has chosen, but the bottom line is that they protected what needed to be protected, and in a fashion that many larger and more well-funded corporations have failed.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#60 - 2013-06-03 18:50:49 UTC
Anyway, this one looks like it's about to spiral out of control.
People can agree with me, or they may choose to remain wrong - either way, I'm done here.
Cool

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc