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Cruise Golem viable with Odyssey?
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DSpite Culhach
#1 - 2013-06-03 13:09:09 UTC
Since it can be kept loaded with T2 Fury's most of the time cause it uses half as many, even using 2000 per mission for primary targets is only around 2 Million, with the T1 ammo for cleanup work, the DPS with multiple BCS II's seems to go 700-900 on paper, and should be able to be applied well with a couple of Rigors ...

Anyone actually looked at this option? I mostly thought it useful for people that kill AND salvage.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Ziester
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-03 13:20:41 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Since it can be kept loaded with T2 Fury's most of the time cause it uses half as many, even using 2000 per mission for primary targets is only around 2 Million, with the T1 ammo for cleanup work, the DPS with multiple BCS II's seems to go 700-900 on paper, and should be able to be applied well with a couple of Rigors ...

Anyone actually looked at this option? I mostly thought it useful for people that kill AND salvage.
Quote:
[Golem, Cruise Golem Odyssey]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Domination 100MN Afterburner
Explosive Deflection Field II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 800
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


Used in Angel anomalies.

1/ Warp at 100km
2/ Keep at 100km closest BS
3/ Fire Fury's
4/ ????
5/ Profit

For missions you might want a better (sustained) tank though. But yeah, just use Fury's. You can still let the drones out for taking out frigs.

Pop, rock, Metal radio station
DSpite Culhach
#3 - 2013-06-03 14:25:56 UTC
Gees, didn't occur to me to do ASB's. I guess also possible to jam a MJD in place of the AB and just jump out to 100km after landing on grid using accelleration gates.

Neat.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
sera leonza
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-03 15:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: sera leonza
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Since it can be kept loaded with T2 Fury's most of the time cause it uses half as many, even using 2000 per mission for primary targets is only around 2 Million, with the T1 ammo for cleanup work, the DPS with multiple BCS II's seems to go 700-900 on paper, and should be able to be applied well with a couple of Rigors ...

Anyone actually looked at this option? I mostly thought it useful for people that kill AND salvage.




All of the cruise boats do identical "paper" dps with the same equivalent setup and skills.

For example we will go for 3x BCU and 2 Rigors, they all read EXACTLY the same paper dps.

SO, The ship that applies that paper dps the most efficiently wins.

In short,

Golem > the other cruise boats.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#5 - 2013-06-03 19:26:59 UTC
Last time I read about it (I'm no missile user myself) the problem with Golem+cruises was precisely due to role bonus: 4 lanunchers doing twice damage each. Which meant if it fired 4 missiles in salvo and if NPC's defender managed to kill only one, the effective dps was reduced by 1/4. CNR in similar situation would loose only 1/7, no big problem then. So Golem was stuck with torps because they are more resilient to defenders.
hellcane
Never Back Down
#6 - 2013-06-03 19:55:46 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Last time I read about it (I'm no missile user myself) the problem with Golem+cruises was precisely due to role bonus: 4 lanunchers doing twice damage each. Which meant if it fired 4 missiles in salvo and if NPC's defender managed to kill only one, the effective dps was reduced by 1/4. CNR in similar situation would loose only 1/7, no big problem then. So Golem was stuck with torps because they are more resilient to defenders.

I've been playing around with a cruise golem since torps are, and soon will be deeper, in the sh-thouse. Have seen very few defenders.
Jimmy Doe
Creative Research and Production Services
#7 - 2013-06-03 22:20:50 UTC
sera leonza wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Since it can be kept loaded with T2 Fury's most of the time cause it uses half as many, even using 2000 per mission for primary targets is only around 2 Million, with the T1 ammo for cleanup work, the DPS with multiple BCS II's seems to go 700-900 on paper, and should be able to be applied well with a couple of Rigors ...

Anyone actually looked at this option? I mostly thought it useful for people that kill AND salvage.




All of the cruise boats do identical "paper" dps with the same equivalent setup and skills.

For example we will go for 3x BCU and 2 Rigors, they all read EXACTLY the same paper dps.

SO, The ship that applies that paper dps the most efficiently wins.

In short,

Golem > the other cruise boats.



You're smoking something pretty good. My CNR has over 100 more dps using cruise than my Golem did. That will change with this new patch as I lose rate of fire bonus on the CNR but adding an 8th launcher and 7th mid slot should balance it out.
stoicfaux
#8 - 2013-06-03 22:28:12 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Since it can be kept loaded with T2 Fury's most of the time cause it uses half as many, even using 2000 per mission for primary targets is only around 2 Million, with the T1 ammo for cleanup work, the DPS with multiple BCS II's seems to go 700-900 on paper, and should be able to be applied well with a couple of Rigors ...

Anyone actually looked at this option? I mostly thought it useful for people that kill AND salvage.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=230551&find=unread

Cruise Golem is good Golem.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
hellcane
Never Back Down
#9 - 2013-06-03 22:57:06 UTC
Jimmy Doe wrote:
sera leonza wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Since it can be kept loaded with T2 Fury's most of the time cause it uses half as many, even using 2000 per mission for primary targets is only around 2 Million, with the T1 ammo for cleanup work, the DPS with multiple BCS II's seems to go 700-900 on paper, and should be able to be applied well with a couple of Rigors ...

Anyone actually looked at this option? I mostly thought it useful for people that kill AND salvage.




All of the cruise boats do identical "paper" dps with the same equivalent setup and skills.

For example we will go for 3x BCU and 2 Rigors, they all read EXACTLY the same paper dps.

SO, The ship that applies that paper dps the most efficiently wins.

In short,

Golem > the other cruise boats.



You're smoking something pretty good. My CNR has over 100 more dps using cruise than my Golem did. That will change with this new patch as I lose rate of fire bonus on the CNR but adding an 8th launcher and 7th mid slot should balance it out.


So 8 launchers on new CNR is > 4 launchers doing double damage on the golem?

Well, I am shocked.
sera leonza
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-03 23:13:29 UTC
Jimmy Doe wrote:
sera leonza wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Since it can be kept loaded with T2 Fury's most of the time cause it uses half as many, even using 2000 per mission for primary targets is only around 2 Million, with the T1 ammo for cleanup work, the DPS with multiple BCS II's seems to go 700-900 on paper, and should be able to be applied well with a couple of Rigors ...

Anyone actually looked at this option? I mostly thought it useful for people that kill AND salvage.




All of the cruise boats do identical "paper" dps with the same equivalent setup and skills.

For example we will go for 3x BCU and 2 Rigors, they all read EXACTLY the same paper dps.

SO, The ship that applies that paper dps the most efficiently wins.

In short,

Golem > the other cruise boats.



You're smoking something pretty good. My CNR has over 100 more dps using cruise than my Golem did. That will change with this new patch as I lose rate of fire bonus on the CNR but adding an 8th launcher and 7th mid slot should balance it out.


I have been on Sisi and fit Golem, Raven, CNR, SNI and the typhoon with the above mentioned 3 x bcu and 2 x rigor all fitted with the same ammo.

Guess what.

They ALL showed the EXACT same paper dps.

So what exactly is it you think i have been smoking?
stoicfaux
#11 - 2013-06-03 23:17:48 UTC
To be fair, the CNR can field three sentries versus the Golem's two sentries.

As for the NPC defender issue, has anyone actually seen an NPC fire a defender since the missile graphics overhaul? (serious question.)



Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Pipernelli Spacemitt
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-06-03 23:36:25 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:

As for the NPC defender issue, has anyone actually seen an NPC fire a defender since the missile graphics overhaul? (serious question.)



Negative Ghostrider.
sera leonza
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-06-03 23:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: sera leonza
SNI

Golem

Raven

CNR

All fit the same and on the same character.

3 bcu, 2 rigor.

Stoicfaux.

discussion is not cruise with X Y and or Z it's Cruise.

edit

Added the Typhoon for the complete set and to make sure a certain non believer gets the picture.

Typhoon

All BS lvl'd to 5
Cruise Spec to 4
Think 2 missile support skills are @ 4

And like stated above, they all show exactly the same cruise missile dps.
stoicfaux
#14 - 2013-06-04 04:01:35 UTC
sera leonza wrote:

Stoicfaux.

discussion is not cruise with X Y and or Z it's Cruise.

And like stated above, they all show exactly the same cruise missile dps.

That's my (indirect) point. Cruise is no longer a difference (well, except for the Fleet Typhoon which has 8.25 effective launchers.) You don't pick a cruise missile hull based on DPS, you pick a hull based on the hull's other characteristics; CNR's built in rigor, SNI's tank, Typhoon's 4 sentries and armor tanking, Golem's tank and tractors, Fleet Typhoon's 5 sentry drones and speed/size, etc..


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-04 04:01:47 UTC
Played around with a cruise SNI, CNR, Typhoon and Golem on sisi. Mainly I solo mission run.

My impression is that Golem > greater than all for my use.



1. Best damage application, this really shows up when hitting cruisers and frigs.

2. Can fit a massive pve active tank, sit in one place kill everything tractor the loot/salvage.

3. Juggling target painters is the missile boat curse, but is the least painful on the Golem because
it applies its dps better than any other missile boat.

4. Defender missile ? Recently I can't really recall them being an issue, I hope they stay that way.

5. No need to swap missiles and do no dps for ten sec. load fury cruise and kill everything.( cept FoF)

6. Cruise Golem has better range and dps than a jav torp Golem, really you had to use mainly jav torps
in missions to be time effective.

7. I use salvage drones during combat and rarely use light combat drones or sentries. really speeds up the looting/salvaging (Golem still kills the frigs at an acceptable rate).




The buff to cruise missiles really gives the Golem a huge boost pve wise, and obsoletes torps in my view. The only mission where I can see torps being useful is damsel. PvE cruise Golem > than all other cruise ships imo.



Good luck.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-06-04 04:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
Golem DPS = CNR dps

Fully rigged, fitted CNR does 1005 cruise dps, Fully fitted Golem does 1005 dps with my skills, my implants, my fit..


the big difference is that golem can tank alot and lock range is 112km
also since golem has 4 launchers, there is rarely some defender taking one out missile

CNR with it's 8 launchers WILL trigger defender almost every time!!!! dont forget that
stoicfaux
#17 - 2013-06-04 04:52:59 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:

CNR with it's 8 launchers WILL trigger defender almost every time!!!! dont forget that

Back in the day, I ran some tests and confirmed that the NPC defender launch chance check only triggered once per group, and not per missile in the group.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-06-04 04:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
it is now changed since missile graphics overhaul

Tengu and CNR got hit all the time with defender, HAM tengu problably for shooting so fast.
and no difference if grouped vs single

but everyone can try themselves tonight, right :D
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#19 - 2013-06-04 15:45:30 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:

As for the NPC defender issue, has anyone actually seen an NPC fire a defender since the missile graphics overhaul? (serious question.)

Today some serpentis BS' used defenders quite a lot. Moreover some BS did shoot my 2 missiles on 50km+ distance. I lost 50% of my damage on that burst.

Whatever.
Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-06-04 20:23:27 UTC
Rexxorr wrote:
Played around with a cruise SNI, CNR, Typhoon and Golem on sisi. Mainly I solo mission run.

My impression is that Golem > greater than all for my use.



1. Best damage application, this really shows up when hitting cruisers and frigs.

7. I use salvage drones during combat and rarely use light combat drones or sentries. really speeds up the looting/salvaging (Golem still kills the frigs at an acceptable rate).




The buff to cruise missiles really gives the Golem a huge boost pve wise, and obsoletes torps in my view. The only mission where I can see torps being useful is damsel. PvE cruise Golem > than all other cruise ships imo.



2 question, is typhoon damage application 2nd best compare to golem? is it still viable for typhoon to kill frigs at an acceptable rate?
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