EVE General Discussion

I'd run 3 with only one filled with crap.

The t2 ones can have super secret contents.

I'd also have a real good look at making them safe in hisec from ganking without some insane intent. This would be key should they be expected to survive low and null sec, as in those spaces you can have modest odds of engaging a threat before it engages your bus without magical cops punishing that or saving you and making you safe (like hisec will always be).

If ppl go so far as to suggest removal of cyno capabilities today, other drastic changes would be needed to balance it. And this is all just theory b.s. anyways.

what if there was a much more limited cyno distance, and you can neither light one nor jump to one near a station?

I don't think we need to go so crazy as to axe jumping entirely, that's dumb. but you can address projection with balance i think.

We should be vulnerable when we do **** all the way across the galaxy, and it should be a little bit of a pain in the ass / big deal.

…aaaand right there, you broke the idea of making null industry useful.

POSes and outposts are different for a reason. Fixing POSes to replace outposts means that the industry will move from highsec NPC stations to highsec POSes. So no, that's a horrible idea. Instead, make POSes do something else and fix the current outposts. Even if POSes received no attention at all, the outposts need to be fixed since they are the kind of landmarks that sets null apart from other parts of space — leaving them in a broken state is downright idiotic.

Make outposts actually be the stations of null, where, with time and money, you can make them dwarf the capability of anything those silly empires have built. Give player-run space the ability to provide more player freedom than NPC-run space. With that broken content fixed, POSes can be made into something useful that complements the outposts in null and the stations in high, without competing with either.

…and nerf highsec industry to make it make such a buff possible. This ensures that, although you can manufacture more safely and with less logistical hassle in highsec, the costs will be prohibitively large compared to just locally extracting or importing the materials and then building the products in null. This increase null traffic (moving materials and products around between industry hubs and trade hubs or staging areas) means more interaction on gates; it means more targets to attack; it means a way to interdict and disrupt supply lines.

There — you have just fixed nullsec industry and solved the notional problem of this thread. Notice how none of this has anything to do with the capabilities of ships, least of all jump ships. You're right that only three things need to happen, but it's not the three you enumerate. Instead, it's: 1) fixing outposts to match and surpass the capabilities of highsec systems; 2) nerfing highsec to have costs and availability limitations that are commensurate with the safety and logistical ease; 3) buffing null industry to have easier access to base materials.

Jumping ships can safely be left alone because they're not particularly relevant to the actual problem or to its solution.

Yes we did. It's the same as it has always been: because your solution doesn't move industry into null — it just shifts it around in highsec and makes null even more of a chore to live in.

It is clearly imbalanced because it makes them more survivable for no good reason. If anything, they're already a bit too sturdy for what they are, and should probably be adjusted downwards for better balance.

Making it considerably easier to suicide gank things would be a great step to making supply lines vulnerable.

I'm ok with having cynos further away from lowsec stations and reducing jump ranges on JF's. But only in exchange for removing all ore/ice/build/research/agents from highsec space. I'm also for making all but 10% of current highsec into lowsec and tripling the number of nullsec regions beyond the current number of available regions in normal space.

Nullsec alliances should be allowed to setup more then 1 outpost per system. Also allow all but 1 station to be destroyed (during sov war). As well as given an automated way to acquire minerals for their various war efforts instead of stupid and slow mining barges. Keep barges around but for getting minerals from belts/anoms/missions in low.

Why not have pos's for getting minerals? If all minerals have to be gathered and processed locally then a group could very easily attack supply lines and the defender can still operate given the removal of all minerals from empire. This would allow smaller groups to whittle down big groups via resource denial. To make it even easier why not make it so that pos force fields and shields can't be active while a tower has online modules for gathering minerals. A black ops crew like those in Pizza, Mildly intoxicated, and Dirt nap squad could attack carebears warping to the tower to get the minerals. They could also ninja reinforce a resource tower after removing its armor since without shields the tower should go down much more quickly instead of it taking hours.

If you want risk for people in nullsec then I only ask that all people in empire be forced to live in low and null. Highsec should only be for noobies doing training missions and a market similar to an auction house in other mmo's. Eve would then be a harsh place instead of having 90% of the population sucking on the tit of ccp in highsec.

And, while they're at it, they can give the ability to acquire CONCORD SWAT battleships and faction ships/modules/ammo blueprint originals and our own station/gate sentry guns to deploy where ever we want them. If we can afford them, then, I don't see why not.



Except that jump freighters don't use gates in null sec, and only in very limited circumstances in low sec. Neither do Rorquals. Neither do carriers. Neither do dreadnoughts. Neither do supercarriers. Neither do titans. In fact, many regular ships don't use gates in low/null. Hmmmmm . . .



The "actual" problem is that there are ships in the game that are impossible to kill except in cases of lag or pilot error (not always due to being a complete moron).

Now, you may say "But, but, but . . . the killburrd says jump freighters die . . .". If you don't understand that the vast majority of those jump freighter kills fall under the category of "pilot error", then you're probably too stupid to understand any explanation I could give (or you just refuse to accept the truth).

The original post of this thread is not about null sec industry. It is about logistics. Refusal to accept even that most basic premise shows that you are not interested in exchanging ideas, but rather, only want to shove yours down our throats.

A good way of coming to terms with the problem might be to ask yourself what effect it would have on the game if Retrievers and Drakes had jump drives.

This is an awesome argument. Now, please explain why you would clamor for a change to industry since you just explained why there shouldn't be a change.

That's just backwards thinking at it's most extreme. Players of a video game are always going to do what works best (path of least resistance), even when that path is unbalanced.

It's like that in every game, like in the FOPS where the game play is stale because everyone is using the "plasma rifle". you choice is "use plasma rifle and be bored" of "don't use plasma rifle and suffer".

That's basically no choice at all. Same way EVE gives no real choice other than "use high sec" or grind FOREVER to do things in null then watch it get killed or captured by someone with bigger blob".

If you think the problem is people simple doing what makes the most sense, you're insane. You are literally blaming the victims.

It's the same bizarro thinking as we saw in the titan nerf discussions

"If you think Titans are so overpowered how come you are happy to use them?"

"Uh... because they're overpowered?"

This isn't a moral issue. It's not like there are bad guys and good guys here. People weren't using blap Titans because they were bad people but because blap Titans were far too good at blapping things.

We're not saying "Hi-sec industry is eeeeeevil and must be punished. 0.0 industry is God's Will!" We're saying that it's far too difficult and unprofitable to conduct industry in sov 0.0 compared to how easy and cheap it is in hi-sec. Instead of hisec industry being the easiest and the most profitable, it should be easier but less profitable.

It's a numerical game balance issue. If level 1 missions paid out 30 times what level 4 missions did, no one would run level 4s.

Because if i could war dec the haulers, my problems would all ready be solved, and i could send all day flying around high sec shooting JF's.


now, if you let me wardec NPC corps, i will go have a mod delete this thread.



SO, as a CSM member do something about Null blocks and just about every other scrub in the game useing NPC corp to hide there hauling/mining/indy/reserch/ what have you alts.





FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT.

that would be a boon for all you null sec guys as well, MORE HIGH SEC TEARS.


DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT.