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[Odyssey Feedback Request] New Sensor Overlay

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Adan Natrier
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#421 - 2013-05-29 02:28:02 UTC
- Incursion sites still show as beacons in overview, not on the server overlay. This is (or was, last week; I'd confirm if I could find any fw sites on sisi) unlike the low sec FW sites, that were transitioned from overview, to sensor overlay. Intentional? (also, on jump into an incursion area, the screen goes sansha orange before you even leave the previous system, which is a bit wierd)

- On jump into system, when followed by a quick manual warp to next the auto scan visual does now withdraw, implying scanner pause/stop. The accompanying sound effect does not stop.

As already reported (and related to above) it's populating the scanner's list of anoms before a "scan" actually took place, even when "interrupted" by a warp. It'd really be nice if it didn't "know" about information it ought not to have scanned yet - or at all. In short there's still gaps between what the visual is saying, and what it's actually doing. I hope they are continuing to tightened up, but it's looking like it's making progress.

I would still be wishing for it to continue to show sites in space, after the one-sweep (rather than only continuous) mode. A few beeps aren't enough to tell you it found something (only to remove them from view a couple of , and if you have to turn it back all-on, I'm not sure I can see a point.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#422 - 2013-05-29 03:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
If you want to see sites in space, turn the overlay on. For the people who don't want to see sites in space, they absolutely should fade. If you actually care about what anomalies and what sites are out there, you'll be either flying around with the overlay turned on or watching your scanner window, which serves the same purpose.

As far as Incursion systems are concerned, it might be nice if the jump tunnel did a fade from the usual grey to Sansha Green somewhere during the actual jump instead of the harsh and sudden instant change we have now, but that's probably a technical issue and will be more than suitable for a point release rather than needing to be in Odyssey on the 4th.

Incursion sites being transferred off the overview and onto the overlay/scanner as anomalies could be completely amusing.

I'm curious what you're implying by "information it ought not to have scanned ... at all".
Vincent Mayer
BOWA Heavy Industries
#423 - 2013-05-29 21:25:25 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Hey everyone,

lots of typing :) some good stuffs


The second is the jump-in scan and lack of options surrounding it. There'll hopefully be a blog on this feature soon that goes into more detail, but a major part of the feature brief was to find a way to make exploration possibilities more naturally visible to players of all ages (including new ones, obviously).The jump-in scan is one of the main ways we're hoping to meet that goal, by opening a permanent window into the hidden world of EVE. We're also, as a general goal, trying to gently cut back on the number of options that we expose in the client, both because it allows us to spend our "user complexity budget" more efficiently and because it's expensive in terms of development and maintenance. Our goal, rather, is to tune and target the jump-in scan so that it becomes a natural part of the jump sequence, rather than some outlandish imposition. We're going to be evaluating its intrusiveness on an ongoing basis both prior to and after release, to try and ensure that we hit that goal.


If anyone has any outstanding questions not covered here, please ask Smile

-Greyscale




Okay... I read your whole response, and I am not against this feature...i want you first and foremost to realize and recognize that. But in your response you say exactly what I am saying is wrong with this feature....

Not EVERYONE wants to do this.....not EVERYONE wants to go and play in anoms and other things. In fact there are many of us who will never ever use this, even though I think its top notch and provides othersh some interesting game play.

But your solution is - we want to open a permanent window - why? Did someone ask for this? Did your paying public tear down the walls and say "boy do we need this feature added to EvE!"

I am not gonna rage and quit or any of that I do love this terrible game that we play......I just think this is daft, it will probably be the # 1 requested change after the release. Sometimes you want to go out scanning and you want to have this active. Other times I must admit its just a bunch of fluff that clutters the screen and adds zero value to game play.

I have added several prior posts on this subject - and unless you are in a ship that you actual can use to go and clear anoms or care about the scanned down sites i have no idea why i would need or use this - my freighter is not headed into an anom any time soon, nor a JF or my macks or almost any industrial for that matter and when traveling the wastes of null and low sec the last thing i give a flying about is anoms when im trying to get the hell out of a gate camp or bubble.

Sorry but you ask for our feedback and sometimes its not going to be what you want to hear.

~Regan~




Everytime i log onto sisi to see the progress of this next expansion and i undock and that sweep runs, and i am reminded of the launch of the captain's quarters and how it was originally forced. I don't mind the new changes, but i really do mind being force fed features. Just like CQ, the sweep should be optional for many reasons. My hope is that once it hits TQ that all the players that don't get on sisi will voice this and ccp will listen.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#424 - 2013-05-30 03:04:38 UTC
You know. I was wondering if perhaps ordinary asteroid belts should also be revealed by the sensor sweep. My thinking is that the sensor sweep actually makes the once hidden asteroid fields more prominent that the static ones. And new players may not realise that the static sites are there.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#425 - 2013-05-31 01:12:12 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Even if I live in wormholes, and even if I usually always complain... For once, I agree with the developpers. Yes using DSPs this way is the only way for them to be useful, and its a creative way of using them. However, I think it's too far from the original conception of how scanning should work. People using only one probe and being able to divide in ten seconds by 4 or 5 the amount of signature they need to scan to find the right one... Sounds like a bit too OP to me.


Now have a look at the efficiency of an 8-probe, 4AU formation scanning at each planet. Not quite as fast as a DSP but thanks to the new probing UI, a little more convenient since you don't have to keep switching between DSPs and regular probes.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Me of Course
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#426 - 2013-05-31 01:35:34 UTC
as i showed in this thread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3104384

The sensor overlay gets crowded when there's a lot of sites in the system, as they are mostly cramped together and the icons are large so they overlap with one another which is more obvious here which shows how the sites are just crowding in the overview, and will cause most people to turn off this feature making it useless due to how annoying it is instead of being useful

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=268764&find=unread <<< Skin's for ships COMON, YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#427 - 2013-05-31 06:07:41 UTC
The icons are indeed far too big.

.
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#428 - 2013-06-01 17:22:42 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
...This achieves two things. Firstly, we remove the confusion caused by the initial probe scan on higher-strength sites invariably resulting in a signal strength decrease, which is ugly and unintuitive.....


This could be done simply by having a different column showing "Signature Strength/Size" (as an optional column for instance).

CCP Greyscale wrote:
...Clearly, this makes the sort of DSP look-up tables that advanced explorers are used to somewhat more difficult to leverage, as there's no longer a handily-exposed variable for this (the information can still be largely derived from the [clamped] range deviation visible in the tooltip, but you'll have to do a bit of math in your head to figure it out). The new "spread formation" allows this to be somewhat mitigated by acting as a poor man's DSP, but it's nevertheless a reduction in available information at this specific stage of the process. Given the efficiency gains elsewhere, though, we're of the belief that this shouldn't, in practice significantly disadvantage probers relative to the current TQ system....


Do you realize that those look-up tables were the results of true exploration (discovery -> documentation -> publication)? It's ironic that you're cutting off access to the fruits of real exploration in favor of repetitive faux exploration. Rather than encouraging players to use their minds to reduce their workload, you're encouraging them to scan through dozens of unrelated sigs to find what they want. I hope you can see the irony in that:

CCP Greyscale wrote:
...we're not huge fans of systems that require tedious and repetitive manual busy work....


...
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#429 - 2013-06-01 19:29:36 UTC
Those precious look-up tables also encouraged and enabled cherry-picking, turning Treasure Hunting into something easily farmed.

CCP hates farming.
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#430 - 2013-06-01 21:15:38 UTC
So the solution is to replace it with tedium?
Jonathan Malcom
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#431 - 2013-06-01 21:38:44 UTC
This is actually one of my favorite features of the expansion. Between the scan effect and the auto-pilot route being projected in space, this is starting to look like an actual, futuristic, sci-fi game.

Excellent work.
Zircon Dasher
#432 - 2013-06-01 21:59:39 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Those precious look-up tables also encouraged and enabled cherry-picking, turning Treasure Hunting into something easily farmed.

CCP hates farming.


Meh. Nothing really changes on the farming front for flesh and blood players. The biggest cherry picking impact will be for scanning from non-bonused ships/ those with low skills (since increased probe strength increases the spread between bands) and the constant monitoring of large systems.

Treasure hunters will just use a combat probe or split core probes up..... farming isn't going anywhere

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#433 - 2013-06-01 22:37:49 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Those precious look-up tables also encouraged and enabled cherry-picking, turning Treasure Hunting into something easily farmed.

CCP hates farming.


Meh. Nothing really changes on the farming front for flesh and blood players. The biggest cherry picking impact will be for scanning from non-bonused ships/ those with low skills (since increased probe strength increases the spread between bands) and the constant monitoring of large systems.

Treasure hunters will just use a combat probe or split core probes up..... farming isn't going anywhere


I think the most important part of your post might be "Nothing changes for flesh and blood players".
Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
#434 - 2013-06-01 22:43:29 UTC
For systems whose radii are bigger than 32 AU, a lot is about to change... any signatures further than half the sphere radius will appear to be in a lower band. The spread formation does not replace DSPs in their ability to accurately place signatures in their respective bands. Players who have previously used DSPs in this way ("flesh and blood" or otherwise) will be having to change.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#435 - 2013-06-01 22:48:30 UTC
I've noticed that the spheres that accompany initial 0% readings are in fact different sizes. It may be worth putting some time into investigating that.
Zircon Dasher
#436 - 2013-06-02 01:16:57 UTC
Faulx wrote:
For systems whose radii are bigger than 32 AU, a lot is about to change... any signatures further than half the sphere radius will appear to be in a lower band. The spread formation does not replace DSPs in their ability to accurately place signatures in their respective bands. Players who have previously used DSPs in this way ("flesh and blood" or otherwise) will be having to change.


It only appears in the lower band if you completely derp the fact that you have to adjust the value according to range. A spreadsheet can be quickly set up to give you this info until you gain enough experience to know intuitively. The only time it really becomes a pain is in systems with a 45-50+AU radius and you only use one probe.

Players will have to change but said change is incredibly minor.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Zircon Dasher
#437 - 2013-06-02 01:23:48 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I've noticed that the spheres that accompany initial 0% readings are in fact different sizes. It may be worth putting some time into investigating that.


I noticed that as well but on a preliminary look it appears that it is just scan deviation since I did not see a pattern in the sphere-size and site. In one system two sigs in the same band had dramatically different spehere sizes. In another system there were two identical sites (5/10's) but they also had different sphere sizes.

Not a great sample to make generalizations on, and this was two "updates" ago, so take it for what it is.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#438 - 2013-06-03 11:22:16 UTC
As a bit of last-minute fast feedback..

..having considered the matter quite thoroughly during our recent.. server difficulties.. it does in fact seem to me that perhaps having the scanner list populated instantly is in fact a bit too fast. If the scanner list is going to be totally populated for free and without even so much as a button-click, it really really should wait until the end of the scan sweep for that population to happen.

There is some way to implement this, right?
Infinite Force
#439 - 2013-06-03 18:38:51 UTC
Generally, I like the changes (the eye-candy ones).


1. TURN OFF the auto-scan "feature" when you jump/undock.
-- That thing is frankly annoying when you're not actively looking for sites. Allow it to be turned on/off.


2. FIX your "ignore" option.
-- When I right-click on a site and select 'ignore", it should go away from my list, not stay.
-- When I finally was able to get a site to be 'ignored", it should return when I clear my ignore list.

3. FIX your "clear ignored sites" option
-- See #2.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#440 - 2013-06-03 20:31:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
As seen at Fanfest!

A big part of Odyssey's focus is on discovery of things to do in the universe. We want to ensure that players have an intuitive and effective way to see the options for exploration that are available to them.

Our new sensor overlay feature replaces the functionality of the onboard scanner with a visual sensor sweep and results displayed in the 3d skybox.

  • It runs once automatically every time you enter a system (undocking, jumping, bridging, whatever) so that you can get a glimpse of what's out there to find.
  • It can also be run continuously via the new radial version of the scanner button beside the console at the bottom of your screen.

    • The sensor overlay finds cosmic anomalies with 100% accuracy (just like the onboard scanner) and shows you the rough location of cosmic signatures so you know to drop your probes.

    This thread is your one stop shop for Singularity feedback on the sensor overlay, please let us know how it works out for you!

    :Edit: Some updates made in conjunction with your feedback can be found here:

    The effect looks awesome, some nice eye candy.

    What will the sever load look like with over 40,000 ships queing for a scan every couple minutes, rather than only when they hit the scanner button? Can we turn this off for traveling? When I am headed for Jita the last thing I want is for lag on this new scanner to slow down my trip, especially if I have valuable cargo.

    So now the new ORE sites will be seen in a box without even having to do a single click on the scanner. If it is balanced to have hidden belts equally accessible to static belts then why were they the hardest sites to scan down? Hidden belts used to be the reward for putting more effort into your mining career than the average bot or miner, now they all have access to these higher quality ores.

    But I guess since the smart miners will no longer be in them due to being a sitting duck for any passing roamer, we might as well let the stupid noobs find them to give the gankers at least some targets.

    Will we see new signatures added to give explorers a kind of elite goal to aim for? Or will all sites just be geared toward low skilled noobies fresh out of the tutorials? I spent a lot of training time getting my scanning skills nearly maxed out so I could find sites that other players could not, including the best hidden ore belts. Now that skill training time was wasted as it no longer gives me that advantage. Training those skills from 4 to 5 took some time, now you do not even need them to 4 to find even the hardest sites.