EVE General Discussion

Perhaps keep NPC lines but tax them to the level of a POS requirements and limit a player to just one per character.

They then have a good reason to get into player owned corps even if its just them in a one man corp.

That's my line of thinking. Have NPC lines that require an ISK input based on the rolling hand-wavey average blah blah blah of that race's fuel blocks, more than would be required to fuel the same type of activity line in a POS. Thus it will become too expensive† to keep all the NPC lines jammed full as a denial of service attack.

Perhaps with high enough taxes it wouldn't be necessary to remove any NPC lines.

But I really do want refineries to become activity lines with finite throughput and delayed output. The days of magic refineries that can smelt a Raven faster than anyone can even undock one must come to an end.

† keeping in mind that one should never underestimate the quantity of ISK that players can bring under their control.

How much publicity a group gets doesn't relate to how meaningful they are to a society. In real life, we'd have much more trouble getting on without nurses, teachers, garbage collectors and builders than we would if we got rid of say, professional footballers - but who gets the most attention and money? Burn Jita would have been meaningless without the traders, haulers and the rest.

"Grr! Nullseccers!" may be an over-simplification. Maybe what he/she is saying is that people like you make it difficult, if not impossible to play in null (or wherever YOU are) for certain other types of players (people like myself, for example).

Just in this thread, you have shown yourself to be a liar (There is no factual, numerical data that says you CAN'T do industry in null efficiently.), condescending, entitled, overly-dramatic (cutting null sec's throat?), and stubborn, and I'm probably leaving out a few. That may sound like ad hominem, but it is also my own personal and at least semi-objective assessment of your personality. Contrast that with the typical miner or manufacturer's personality, and maybe it will start to become apparent why it is that you guys just can't get together and COoperate in null, where YOU hold all the cards.

Null has more sand than high sec, but if you act like a douche, we will take (and thus far have taken) our bucket and our shovel and play somewhere else. That's not a choice you get to make for us. And, it is funny how null players, despite having such disdain for "carebears", come with their tails tucked in their fairy freighters to sell/buy in Jita, but you sure don't see us making pilgrimages to anywhere in null to interact with any of you (except, maybe, to kill your ships). It's funny, because if you really thought you were such superior players, you wouldn't fear cutting the umbilical cord between yourself and "carebear"-land. In fact, you'd probably be eager to see it happen.

You may believe your own lies, but from my standpoint, it looks like this:

You are too lazy/greedy/risk averse to do industry in null.
You don't want to have to fight for what you have.
You want the best of both worlds.
You don't want anyone else to have as much as you.
You want to be in control.
You want to believe you are the bestest, most important EVE player.

But, just ask yourself: Is it a good game mechanic for someone's ships/modules/materials to magically disappear on one side of the galaxy and magically reappear on the other side without any way for other players to stop that from happening?

…aside from the mechanically enforced costs of doing so; the mechanically enforced limitations on doing it; the mechanically enforced risks in doing it. All of which are factual, numerical, and currently under dev review since it's been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that it can't be done efficiently.

So no, that's not a “semi-objective assessment” — it's a lie and and an ad hominem on your part.

Good news: there are ways for other players to stop that from happening. Even better news: the solution to that (non-)issue lies in fixing the underlying problem that makes such a mechanic a necessity.

For the first point, it has nothing to do with laziness, greed, or risk aversion — it has to do with making intelligent choices. There is no point in doing industry in null when you can do it in high and have it be better in every way. Same goes for the second point: why fight for something when there's no need to and when you can get it for free? In reality, they do fight for what they want (and, in fact, this whole movement to buff null industry is intended to increase the stuff to fight over), but again, it would be downright stupid not to make use of mechanics that make industry effortless, free, and incontestable. The third point is an outright lie. They already have the best of both worlds. What they want is the ability to limit it to one world — one where what you get is commensurate to the effort you put in. The last three points are just PvP, and complaining about those in a PvP game is pretty nonsensical. You'll soon discover that it's what pretty much everyone wants…

That's maybe because most nullsec players are just following fleets to spam f1 on primaries, it's easier to coordinate such docile players for those "events", average nullsec player is just a % of a blob this is not what I call interesting .
Highsec has more interesting scamming, highsec has more interesting awoxing, highsec has more interesting market manipulation, etc.
The fact that people outside of the game are more interested in events where "10000 ships are blowing" is perfectly normal, they have no idea what tidi is.
Null is not endgame, this is a sandbox game don't forget to say hi when you come to buy some goodies at jita. xoxoxox ^__^

What, are you saying nothing in the game should be compared to real life? And that a player's 'worth' should be measured by the publicity they make for the game?

If so, those statements don't make a lot of sense.

Strangely enough, nullsec denizens are equally guilty of contributing to the problem they complain about. Over and over that has been explained unfortunately =(

…if by “nullsec denizens” you mean “mechanical restrictions outside of player control”, yes. If not, then no, they're not contributing to that problem for the simple reason that they can't.

You do so have the ability to change the number of industry slots in nullsec. It's just that POSes are too costly to set up when you have the easy option of just freighting stuff down from Jita. So you choose not to. The economic and social pressures guiding your decision are irrelevant when discussing whether or not nullsec has the ability to do industry.

The economic pressures include the cost of running POSes over using NPC manufacturing slots, the inefficiency of POS refineries, and the risk of losing the POS to enemies (but then that's what "farms and fields" is all about).