EVE General Discussion

So, you wont quit eve like that CSM member says you would?

So, you would adapt, to these changes that only remove the safety net of instant safe cynos.

So, you would use this new ability to attack your opponents in coming and out going supply's instead of grinding there billions of structure HP?

I'm simply stunned.


So, this has been nothing but page after page of Null sec bears complaining about how it adds TO MUCH RISK, to there null space?



WHO would of ever though Null players where risk adverse!

Ahahahahahah, just look at all the freighters kill 99% of them are in high sec. Implying people are fighting over stations in null ahahaha, nullspace like wormholespace should never be self-sufficient so it's pretty normal.
Dumb freighters pilots can die in highsec, but they can't die in null since cyno is ******-proof wow balanced.
Checkmate atheist.

Never happening.

Does Malconis know what the thread is about, mumbling about industry like its related, is he ********? I am so sorry.

Not alone. Those who put the effort into running a POS should get some benefit over those who use NPC services.

Easy logistics are just as much a part of "the problem" of invulnerable supply lines as lack of manufacturing capability in nullsec.

Adding mountains of manufacturing slots to outposts only goes a tiny way towards addressing the whole issue, which is that the way the game is designed at present it is far easier to bring supplies in from Jita than it is to produce stuff locally. The list of issues looks something like this:

• Ease of procuring materials (contrast to Apple building iPhone in China rather than USA)
• Ease of manufacturing (i.e.: NPC manufacturing slots are so cheap that they are practically free, POS manufacturing is expensive and tedious)
• Mineral compression (425mm railguns are 50m3 built out of 1500m3 of minerals)
• Jump freighters, Jump bridges (i.e.: very few opportunities to interdict supplies other than suicide ganking in Uedama/Jita)
• POS refineries suck, meaning mining outside an outpost system in null is painful

And even with all the issues addressed, nullseccers will still need to bring in supplies from elsewhere due to fuel requirements, T3 production requirements, T2 production requirements, and differences in supply.

At least addressing some of the issues by making POS manufacturing cheaper than NPC station manufacturing means that nullsec industrialists have the opportunity to improve manufacturing capacity at will without burning mountains of ISK.

The mechanics already exist to allow industry to happen in 0.0. It's just that there are also many mechanics in play that make the alternative of "make stuff in hisec, jump freighter it to null" more profitable. Then there's the issue of alliance leadership proclaiming that industrialists are only allowed in certain systems if at all, refusing to reimburse for losses to blues, treating industrialists as objects instead of people, demanding that products be listed in nullsec markets at Jita prices, ad nauseum.

The greatest problem with null sec is the people in null sec.

My suggestions are to make industry player-driven in all areas of the game, with NPC services available as a crutch or boot-strapping exercise (for the hypothetical situation of the game being started from scratch). By pushing industry into POSes, nullsec gets the "farms and field" style of play that various people were ever so keen on during CSM6, and wardecs start to become more meaningful. That line of thought doesn't seem to have been carried on by recent nullsec advocates though.

I wonder what happened to the fascination with farms and fields? I wonder if someone grew a brain and realised that having farms and fields means not only do you get stuff to shoot at to hurt your enemy, but they get stuff of yours to shoot in order to hurt you.

but hey keep telling us why CCP needs to nerf nullsec so that highsec miners don't feel that they can't compete with better players

So you want to bin all station production slots and just have it happen in POS?

I don't need to, because you do such a good job of destroying your own credibility. For one thing, I know what an ad hominem argument is, and it's not, as you think, "Sofia is wrong because her argument is bad" (what I said). An ad hominem is "Sofia's argument is wrong because she is bad".

I'm sure you're a perfectly good person in your own right, and I'd be prepared to believe that you know more than me on quite a few subjects. But you're making the mistake of confusing your invented generalisation about people you don't know with you knowing about the subject being discussed. That doesn't make you wrong because you're a bad person, it just makes you wrong because you've built your position on the shifting sands of prejudice and ignorance, then complained when it's destroyed by the wind and tide of facts and logic.

Your bigotry against "nullseccers" is no more useful in a discussion about nullsec industry and force project than a Dominionist white supremacist's ideas would be in a discussion about development aid policy in Africa.