EVE General Discussion

I'm not entirely sure this is because of “hig sec subsidies”. In my opinion this is far more likely because most 0.0 alliances have policy of rejecting industrialist players because they don’t contribute to “fleet participation”, i.e. blob.

Case in point Li3 federation. When Jade started it it was mostly industrial entity. Eventually when Jade approached CFC leadership to bring Li3 in to their fold he was told in no uncertain terms by Mittani himself Li3 should quit recruiting industrialist and focus only on PvP-ers.

However in places where industrialist are tolerated they happily do their thing in 0.0. As you can see in any renting entity in 0.0, in addition of ratters, there is plenty of industrialists there too. Provi also has plenty of miners.

My opinion is while there is a problem of insufficient manufacturing slots in 0.0, this is not main reason there is no significant sub capital manufacturing in that space. And I'm sure after all the bufs low sec and 0.0 ore are made, and all the additional industrial slot are supplied, we will see no significant increase in 0.0 industry. Because as long as 0.0 pvp entities know they can easily and safely import eventing they need form high sec they will refuse to recruit industrialists, and deny them access to their space, unless they pay them rent.

As a counter example I present you wormholes. They have quite a lot of industrialists in lower end wormholes. And even PvP entities in high end are forced to do industry themselves to manufacture their beloved blaping dreds and triage carriers. Also check wormhole sell offers. Often one of selling pints for good wormhole is good PI planets, because WH people often want to make their own PI components for POS fuel so they have to import only ice products. So why are wormholes so much more open to industry? Two reasons. First is because importing **** is much harder, or for some products impossible, so they have no choice. And they don’t even have outputs, only dreadfully bad POS-es. Second is absence of power projection that makes it impossible for wormhole PvP people to purge “carebears” from all of wormhole space of like it is easily done in 0.0.

So while improvements to 0.0 mining and outposts that come with Odyssey are good and necessary, I predict they will be completely pointless as long as 0.0 pvp entities are allowed easy and safe access to hig sec markets. They will simply continue to reject any industrialists short of capital ship manufacturers and renters. Only after mineral compression and and easy finished good imports are nerfed will 0.0 entities be forced to take industrialists seriously.

I was actually thinking you should just make yourself a boilerplate copy/paste covering the main facts and usual objections, and save yourself all manner of suffering.

This is just not true, you can jump dreads and carriers into wormhole space just fine when living in a c5 or c6, it's the low end holes where they have to be built inside the hole. As for the PI thing, some people do make stuff for fuel, while others like me do the p4 way and rake in more isk that way, can easily plex and fuel the tower with one toons profits. Getting the actual blocks in is a non issue as you can do that with a single orca trip while hauling out that PI junk. For smaller WH corps the logistics is an issue, not as much for the big ones, we just roll for whatever we want to.

Please show me in recruitment sub forum a single post where Goonswarm, Test, Initiative, PL, Nulli, TNT, NC.,FA, FC, Tribal or any other 0.0 sov holding entity is asking for experienced miners or manufacturers to join their alliance.

Frankly it is ridiculous you are attempting to sell this idea how above mentioned want industrialist to join them, but industrialist themselves refuse to do it.

This thread is exactly like this Video

See the Convoy Interception, the baby is the loot, the females are hi sec noobie carebears or awesomesauce pirates that get intercepted by other pirates/"elite pvpers" (notice they use gel). Then conflict ensues! The baby! Everyone wants the baby!, but WAIT! at 1:27 faceless blonde alt supporting gel pirates but with a hidden agenda appear!

Woman is afraid, blonde is making points in favor of thread but scare supporters of OP.

But everything devolves in chaos and confusion, OP´s original thread is lost, now its not about the baby, but people barge in to say how the woman is crazy and everyone begins to barge in their ideas on how this should continue.

Slowly the drama begins to question peoples reputation, more people barge in, original point is lost as everyone just picks the woman to attack , and then a trial ensues!

Everyone knows this thread will keep going like this, video ends with woman confused and or agitated.

Then woman goes bald!

This thread, 100% like it.

Put all of CFC space together and we have less production slots than one of the high sec systems dispite spending hundreds of billions in improving it.

The mechanics simply do not allow industry to happen in 0.0 so there is no point in going for industrial players or miners.

Reason never does lol

I mean listen, your theory demands that every single 0.0 alliance is completely stupid and willingly sacrifices wealth and income because of some bizarre roleplaying thing you've basically made up.

While that is likely true, or close to be true, I’ll bet that even those few slots are mostly unused.

You see, if manufacturing slots were true current bottleneck of 0.0 industry they would all be constantly full and with long waiting periods. I'm looking right now at manufacturing slots in Provi and from what I can see it seems only about 10% of slots is actually utilised at this moment. And Provi is one of more industry friendly regions of 0.0.

True “bottleneck” of 0.0 industry is lack of manpower that is allowed to engage in 0.0 industry. Most 0.0 alliances focus excursively at pvp recruiting, and frankly with current mechanics, when everything can be imported form higsec at minimal cost of time and effort, there is no good reason for them to change this policy.

Sure those like you and Malcanis that say 0.0 could not manufacture all that they consume now are right. However eventually, when outposts get their upgrades and sufficient manufacturing slots this will no longer be the case. And then only way you will get anybody to actually use those slots is if you force change in 0.0 alliance recruitment practices.

So first step is exactly what CCP is doing now, that is giving 0.0 entities necessary infrastructure to engage in 0.0 industry. Next step, if CCP is serious about 0.0 industry, is actually forcing 0.0 alliances to use that infrastructure, by nerfing they ability to import **** form higsec.

Good! So find yourself nice Caldari outputs for RnD, and minmatar outpost for mining/rating and bring your alts back to Initiative space. And don't give us “there are not enough slots”, I’m sure there is enough, especialy RnD slots given that now in high sec it takes months to get one free. Sansha forsaken/forgone hubs are better then most high sec missions so I don’t know why are you wasting your time in higsec. 0.0 is where the isk is. Bring your alts home. Get rich.