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Intergalactic Summit

 
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An Admittance

Author
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#41 - 2013-05-31 18:45:21 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
...I confess I'm no paticular expert on the Amarrian faith - Quite the opposite, in fact - But isn't there some sort of warning against "knocking twice"?


There is.

A lot of Amarrians usually try to find many ways to bend the literal meaning of that passage when it suits them or their agendas, but are quick to point fingers to the ones they hold grievances against.

That passage means what it means: turn away from the Light, and face the consequences.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#42 - 2013-05-31 19:46:03 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
I remain confused as to why it seems people with leanings towards the Amarr religion seem to be finding themselves in Caldari corporations as of late.


I know of many Caldari who have embraced the Amarr faith. Many Gallente and Minmatar too, but not nearly as many as in the State. Some say people at the highest echelons of State society make pilgrimages to Amarr.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#43 - 2013-05-31 20:26:23 UTC
You can't fault Halete's ambition. She ditched the small-time crooks so she could move up in the criminal hierarchy. What is mere piracy next to slaving and human sacrifice?
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-05-31 21:29:49 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:

Ah well, don't despair all of you who've tried talking sense to Halete. Considering how often she changes allegiances she'll be on to the next thing shortly.


I'm astounded by how many times you manage to repeat this despite the fact that my allegiances have been firm from the very start, my love;

I want what is best for the Minmatar. I have always wanted what is best for the Minmatar.

I'll illustrate this for you;

At first, I thought that the Minmatar were the Republic, that I must serve in the Republic to serve Minmatar. I was wrong.

Second, I decided to work independent of the Republic and help the Minmatar, hoping that I could speak sense into those who followed it's errant government. I was wrong.

Now I stand where I should have from the start; under the Lord.

There's a saying about 'third times'...

For as often as you like to say that I change my allegiances (roughly once per conversation we have, my dear) you are keen to overlook that I have pursued the same goal all along.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-05-31 21:45:09 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
You can't fault Halete's ambition. She ditched the small-time crooks so she could move up in the criminal hierarchy. What is mere piracy next to slaving and human sacrifice?


Your petty ribbing is a small price to pay for me, for the peace it brings to me knowing that when my years as a warrior are past me scores of your compatriots will have saved their souls in no small part due to my own toiling.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#46 - 2013-05-31 23:15:55 UTC
Halete wrote:
Then you are very easily confused.

I do want that peace to return, but I have only ever asked that we return to that age of peace, not that we return to the faith of that age.

The Republic has proven incompetent in all manners where upholding peace is concerned.

If the Minmatar were to live a uniform, god-fearing life of servitude below the Lord, I somehow doubt that they would continue to perpetuate such reckless barbarism.

That seeing the true path has turned you to war is not surprising. You are not the first and shall not be the last deceiver to take up arms against His people. Such folly. This conflict could have been avoided if you had simply accepted your place. How many more billions of lives will you cast away to spit your defiance?


If the Amarr truly cared about the souls of others, they would bring their religion to us in peace, not through war. We had peace during the time of the Minmatar Empire. We have not had peace since the arrival of the Amarr. If you wish to blame someone for our people being turned away from peace, blame the Amarr and their "God." Had the Amarr never arrived to enslave us, we would likely still be living in peace.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-05-31 23:57:11 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:


If the Amarr truly cared about the souls of others, they would bring their religion to us in peace, not through war. We had peace during the time of the Minmatar Empire. We have not had peace since the arrival of the Amarr. If you wish to blame someone for our people being turned away from peace, blame the Amarr and their "God." Had the Amarr never arrived to enslave us, we would likely still be living in peace.



Your doing, not ours.
You signed the accords that meant the Republic was in a state of peace with the Empire. You signed those accords willingly, we didn't force you to sign those treaties. The ones that meant you couldn't attack us and we couldn't 'Reclaim' you. Then five years ago you broke the peace treaties by opening fire on CONCORD. Then in came your ravening armies, which were beaten back by Empress Jamyl. I've buried countless friends thanks to Matari suicide bombers or IEDs. Now you sit here and DARE to tell me that you want peace?

You had your chance to have peace, over a hundred years of it. You chose to break the accords and now you have to accept the consequences of that decision. You decided you wanted to dig up some history and pick a fight with the largest power in the cluster, not us. We didn't have anything to do with that choice, we didn't force you to make it. You COULD have had peace. We offered you every opportunity, with Heideran's reforms and even Empress Jamyl's release of ninth generation slaves and above. You cannot say we have not made commitments to peace. Unfortunately we cannot say the same for you.

Why should we bring you peace?
You have shown us nothing to prove you're willing to meet us half way, so why should we make an effort?

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

Tiber Brucato
The Voidstalker Heresy
No Forks Given
#48 - 2013-06-01 10:18:48 UTC
What is this I don't even.

I knew you were having problems, but. What?

What?
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#49 - 2013-06-02 09:23:51 UTC
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:


If the Amarr truly cared about the souls of others, they would bring their religion to us in peace, not through war. We had peace during the time of the Minmatar Empire. We have not had peace since the arrival of the Amarr. If you wish to blame someone for our people being turned away from peace, blame the Amarr and their "God." Had the Amarr never arrived to enslave us, we would likely still be living in peace.



Your doing, not ours.
You signed the accords that meant the Republic was in a state of peace with the Empire. You signed those accords willingly, we didn't force you to sign those treaties. The ones that meant you couldn't attack us and we couldn't 'Reclaim' you. Then five years ago you broke the peace treaties by opening fire on CONCORD. Then in came your ravening armies, which were beaten back by Empress Jamyl. I've buried countless friends thanks to Matari suicide bombers or IEDs. Now you sit here and DARE to tell me that you want peace?

You had your chance to have peace, over a hundred years of it. You chose to break the accords and now you have to accept the consequences of that decision. You decided you wanted to dig up some history and pick a fight with the largest power in the cluster, not us. We didn't have anything to do with that choice, we didn't force you to make it. You COULD have had peace. We offered you every opportunity, with Heideran's reforms and even Empress Jamyl's release of ninth generation slaves and above. You cannot say we have not made commitments to peace. Unfortunately we cannot say the same for you.

Why should we bring you peace?
You have shown us nothing to prove you're willing to meet us half way, so why should we make an effort?



Apparently you are illiterate. As I said, we have not had the peace we knew during the time of the Minmatar Empire since the Amarr Empire came to our systems and conquered us. The period of "peace" you refer to is not even remotely comparable to what we had before we ever knew of the existence of the Amarr Empire.

As for the specific situation you refer to, you continued to keep our people enslaved and continued to raid our worlds to add to the number of slaves you own. We didn't "dig up some history." Slavery of our people is "current events," not "history."

Halete has expressed repeatedly that she wants the peace we knew before the Amarr Empire ever arrived. That peace was lost with the arrival of the Amarr Empire. That peace can't be had again until all of our people are free. And that peace sure as hell can't be found in the texts of the Amarrian mythos.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#50 - 2013-06-02 13:10:26 UTC
"You are illiterate."
"No you."

"Learn to read."
"No you."

The IGS in a nutshell.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#51 - 2013-06-05 22:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
Ahh - Excuse me, then. No, I understood that well enough; However, I was under the impression based on a conversation (I believe in the Summit?) some time ago that you had followed the Amarrian faith in the past and then forsook it after being liberated from slavery. My quandry arose from such an understanding.

But if you've never followed the it at all, I was obviously somehow mistaken. Pardon.


Even if she had been one of the Amarrian flock, only if she had deemed her faith already proven (that is: knocked at the doors of heaven) wold she have been beyond mercy. It's a warning against deeming oneself already admitted to paradise, before one has been judged thusly. It's directed against the sin of hubris. The first question of the passage really is key to understanding what follows:

The Scriptures, Book of Missions 5:14 wrote:
Which test reveals more of the soul, the test that a man will take to prove his faith, or the test that finds the man who believed his faith already proven? If you know this answer, then you also know which of these challenges bear the greatest penalty for failure. The gates of paradise will open for you one time only; woe to the soul who dares to knock twice.


Thus, the faithful should take tests upon him to prove his faithfulness and to test it: If he fails, there will be punishment, but also mercy. He who shies away from testing his faith or claims testing and proving his faith unnecessary because he considers himself already admitted to His gardens, will be found none the less by the test.
Woe to him who fails, having knocked already!

Thus we see that God's mercy is limited and his wrath is just, as the graveness of sin in deeming oneself fit to make a judgment that belongs to the Lord alone is obvious. Scripture says: "But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God. Thus they were saved and became God's chosen." Live in fear of God, don't deem yourself freed of that fear before you are judged in death.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-06-06 01:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher7
In a way I admire the Empire and pity the Republic.

Because the Republic makes excuses for violence, where the Empire needs none.

For whatever reason, Republicans focus mostly on moralizing and justifying what little violence the Republic does (to be fair, the Republic seems grossly incompetent, directing fleets into Gallente space rather than Empire space where they belong) rather than frankly and honestly expressing a dire need for more of it.

In the old days, Matari warbands stretched as far as the eye could see, ships and equipment blocked out the sun.

Where are those warbands today? What is our answer to PIE? What is our answer to CVA? Why are Amarr POSes and stations allowed to sit in Providence with impunity?

Association with the Federation has done profound damage to our culture and way of life, to the point where we might as well have a seat on the senate and start ditty-bopping around in thongs.

Is it any wonder that our young people are running off?

In their hearts they seek strong battlemasters to lead them, and many are finding those strong battlemasters in Caldari outfits rather than Matari ones.

Halete did not fail us.

We failed Halete.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#53 - 2013-06-09 22:22:43 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
In the old days, Matari warbands stretched as far as the eye could see, ships and equipment blocked out the sun.



Just what "old days" are you refering to? That hasn't been the case in my lifetime or that of my mother and mother's mother, so I'm sure you don't mean anything since we fought our way free of the Empire.

As for before the Empire conquered us, we were a peaceful empire and had been for a long time. There were no Matari warbands. You'd have to go back long before we started colonizing space to find that, and even then, your description is a gross exageration.

Perhaps you should learn more about your own people before you start trying to speak for us.
Laurienne 'Quafegirl' Cherbourg
Like Oh My Gosh I Totally Have A Corp Now
#54 - 2013-06-10 07:51:43 UTC
What's the fuss? It's not like she's moving to another soft drink or anything. ♥

Chilled Quafe™, accept no refreshment substitute. For all of you affluent Capsuleer-types, Quafe Elite™ restaraunts can be found at many stations! Only got a few minutes to spare before that fleet-op? Swing by QuafeSnacks™ for the full taste-experience you've come to expect from Quafe, on the go!

Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-06-10 09:01:10 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:
In the old days, Matari warbands stretched as far as the eye could see, ships and equipment blocked out the sun.


Just what "old days" are you refering to? That hasn't been the case in my lifetime or that of my mother and mother's mother, so I'm sure you don't mean anything since we fought our way free of the Empire.

As for before the Empire conquered us, we were a peaceful empire and had been for a long time. There were no Matari warbands. You'd have to go back long before we started colonizing space to find that, and even then, your description is a gross exageration.

Perhaps you should learn more about your own people before you start trying to speak for us.


Is this what the Republicans are teaching the youth these days? Revisionist history?

We have always formed war parties, known as Masuat'aa.

We have always had battlemasters (often disrespectfully described as "warlords")

Peace is a lie.

Sadly our enemies understand this, but we don't anymore.

Hence we have many just like Halete that forsake the Gallente-influenced garbage we call a culture these days and move on to find strong leaders and strong outfits loyal to foreigners.

To be honest, I'm kind of glad Midular's out of the picture, maybe Shakor can wash the Federation out of everybody's brain and get us back to our roots.

No idea where your mother and mother's mother were, but my father and father's father were fighting since they were old enough to pick up a rifle.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#56 - 2013-06-10 09:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarina Musana
Cipher7 wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:
In the old days, Matari warbands stretched as far as the eye could see, ships and equipment blocked out the sun.


Just what "old days" are you refering to? That hasn't been the case in my lifetime or that of my mother and mother's mother, so I'm sure you don't mean anything since we fought our way free of the Empire.

As for before the Empire conquered us, we were a peaceful empire and had been for a long time. There were no Matari warbands. You'd have to go back long before we started colonizing space to find that, and even then, your description is a gross exageration.

Perhaps you should learn more about your own people before you start trying to speak for us.


Is this what the Republicans are teaching the youth these days? Revisionist history?

We have always formed war parties, known as Masuat'aa.

We have always had battlemasters (often disrespectfully described as "warlords")

Peace is a lie.

Sadly our enemies understand this, but we don't anymore.

Hence we have many just like Halete that forsake the Gallente-influenced garbage we call a culture these days and move on to find strong leaders and strong outfits loyal to foreigners.

To be honest, I'm kind of glad Midular's out of the picture, maybe Shakor can wash the Federation out of everybody's brain and get us back to our roots.

No idea where your mother and mother's mother were, but my father and father's father were fighting since they were old enough to pick up a rifle.



Hahaha, "youth." And how old are you to be calling me "youth"?

Where were my mother and her mother? Living traditional Vherokior lives on Matar in our ancestral homeland, after we regained our freedom from the Amarr. As shamans, helping to re-establish the tradition of the Voluval once it no longer became necessary to hide the practice from the Amarr who tried to stamp it out.

Not all battles are fought with guns and swords, dear. Nor do the Gallente have even the slightest influence on my clan's culture.

Yes, we have always had warriors as part of our culture, but we were not warmongers as you suggest. We had peace, and our warrior aspect had, in many ways, become more tradition and ritual than anything else, and most of that found among tribes such as the Brutor. This is part of why we fell to the Amarr originally.

We are far more violent and war-interested now, since the rebellion and the assistance of the Gallente than we have been since before venturing into space.

Peace is not a lie. Peace is an ideal to strive for.

As for you, you're exactly the kind of warmongering drivel that reinforces the beliefs of other nations that we are simply spoiled/unmanagable children.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-06-10 12:04:16 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Hahaha, "youth." And how old are you to be calling me "youth"?

Where were my mother and her mother? Living traditional Vherokior lives on Matar in our ancestral homeland, after we regained our freedom from the Amarr. As shamans, helping to re-establish the tradition of the Voluval once it no longer became necessary to hide the practice from the Amarr who tried to stamp it out.

Not all battles are fought with guns and swords, dear. Nor do the Gallente have even the slightest influence on my clan's culture.

Yes, we have always had warriors as part of our culture, but we were not warmongers as you suggest. We had peace, and our warrior aspect had, in many ways, become more tradition and ritual than anything else, and most of that found among tribes such as the Brutor. This is part of why we fell to the Amarr originally.

We are far more violent and war-interested now, since the rebellion and the assistance of the Gallente than we have been since before venturing into space.

Peace is not a lie. Peace is an ideal to strive for.

As for you, you're exactly the kind of warmongering drivel that reinforces the beliefs of other nations that we are simply spoiled/unmanagable children.


I didn't ask where your mother was, nor did I suggest unjust wars, nor do I particularly care how old you are, one can be ignorant at any age.

Every culture has its warriors and warrior ethos, and we have gradually been losing ours, along with our Matari identity. The very name "Republic" is a foreign bastardization of our heritage. Likewise "Brutor" "Sebiestor" etc were names given to us by our former slavemasters.

The Masuat'aa has been invoked since time immemorial, in times of danger or distress. Is danger and distress merely a ritual? Merely ceremonial? Our people have been in danger for over 900 years. The TLF, which I believe you are part of, is essentially a Masuat'aa.

Regarding "other nations" , the Gallente have been worthy friends, but don't think for one minute they're going to stop dancing to come defend your village. Accept from them resources and an equal partnership? Hell yes. Accept their culture and way of life? Hell no.

If we do not cultivate our traditional warrior ethos for fear of upsetting some "peaceful savage" fantasy on the part of other nations, if we do not cultivate our young warriors, loyalty to some artificial "Republic" entity isn't going to keep that talent from finding better homes in other empires where the warrior ethos isn't shunned.

My 2 isk
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#58 - 2013-06-10 15:08:47 UTC
Holy crap, I'd forgotten just how ignorant you are.

Cipher7 wrote:
I didn't ask where your mother was, nor did I suggest unjust wars, nor do I particularly care how old you are, one can be ignorant at any age.


You're the only one showing ignorance.

Quote:
Every culture has its warriors and warrior ethos, and we have gradually been losing ours, along with our Matari identity. The very name "Republic" is a foreign bastardization of our heritage. Likewise "Brutor" "Sebiestor" etc were names given to us by our former slavemasters.


Please, tell me where you get this idea about our tribe names? it is true all our languages have been at least mildly influenced by Amarrian due to our people's time as slaves, but that's a far cry from "our names were given to us by the Amarr." For that matter, why would the Amarr give us tribal names when they were trying to eliminate our culture and our tribal identities altogether. That's one reason why there's many clans now that are a collection of "unrelated" individuals who banded together after attaining freedom, rather than being clans formed in the traditional manner, such as my own.

As for Republic, that is a term the Federation gave us when they helped us set up our original governmental system after we gained our freedom, when the Gallente were first trying to impose democracy on us. It is a term that does not really apply to our current government, but changing the name of our nation would probably carry with it annoying complications, not the least of which could include the Amarr Empire trying to loophole their way into launching a full reclaiming under the premise of "We signed a treaty with the Minmatar Republic, not the Minmatar [Empire/State/Nation/WhateverWordYouWantUsToUse].

Personally, I'm not terribly fond of democracy, and I know it won't work for us in the Gallentean format. At best, we'd need to adapt the concept to fit our Tribal systems, at worse we'd have to either abandon our tribal system (an unacceptable idea) or forego democracy altogether (preferable by far).

Quote:
The Masuat'aa has been invoked since time immemorial, in times of danger or distress. Is danger and distress merely a ritual? Merely ceremonial? Our people have been in danger for over 900 years. The TLF, which I believe you are part of, is essentially a Masuat'aa.


Regardless of the potential for practical application, that doesn't make it any less true that it had largely become tradition and ritual.

Quote:
Regarding "other nations" , the Gallente have been worthy friends, but don't think for one minute they're going to stop dancing to come defend your village. Accept from them resources and an equal partnership? Hell yes. Accept their culture and way of life? Hell no.


The only way in which the Gallente have been "worthy friends" is the simple fact that they helped us with our rebellion and have provided some degree of financial support. They have been quite unworthy in how they have treated us since, with constant condescension and disdain because we haven't accepted their culture and way of life.

Which brings me to another point, you are either oblivious or simply an idiot if you think that I, or my clan, has ever had any interest in accepting Gallentean culture and way of life. As I already stated, my clan are Vherokior traditionalists. We don't live in some "village." We have a settlement which we use for only 4 months out of the year for trade 4 months out of the year. The rest of the time, my clan is living as nomads in the desert.

I have also been a frequent voice in stating our displeasure and even anger with the Gallente Federation for their behavior and attitude towards our people, particularly how they treat us like children because we won't accept their culture and way of life, and view us as primitive savages because we would rather hold on to our tribal heritage and traditions than embrace the farce they call a Democracy.

Quote:
If we do not cultivate our traditional warrior ethos for fear of upsetting some "peaceful savage" fantasy on the part of other nations, if we do not cultivate our young warriors, loyalty to some artificial "Republic" entity isn't going to keep that talent from finding better homes in other empires where the warrior ethos isn't shunned.

My 2 isk


Brutor are the traditional warriors, boy. Sebiestor and Vherokior, while having some warrior elements certainly, have never been the militant ones. It's not a lack of "cultivating a warrior ethos" that drives some of our people from the Republic. It's our weak economy and poor standard of living in much of the Republic that does it because we've been struggling to build ourselves up after centuries of slavery.

And your assessment regarding Halete is completely flawed. She didn't turn against the Republic because we don't teach our youth to be warriors. She turned against the Republic because we do teach our youth to be warriors, to seek out bloodshed, and deny the possibility of peace.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2013-06-11 03:02:19 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Please, tell me where you get this idea about our tribe names? it is true all our languages have been at least mildly influenced by Amarrian due to our people's time as slaves, but that's a far cry from "our names were given to us by the Amarr." For that matter, why would the Amarr give us tribal names when they were trying to eliminate our culture and our tribal identities altogether. That's one reason why there's many clans now that are a collection of "unrelated" individuals who banded together after attaining freedom, rather than being clans formed in the traditional manner, such as my own.


I can find no documentation on this, therefor I concede the point. I'm sure I read it in a history archive somewhere.

Katarina Musana wrote:

As for Republic, that is a term the Federation gave us when they helped us set up our original governmental system after we gained our freedom, when the Gallente were first trying to impose democracy on us. It is a term that does not really apply to our current government, but changing the name of our nation would probably carry with it annoying complications, not the least of which could include the Amarr Empire trying to loophole their way into launching a full reclaiming under the premise of "We signed a treaty with the Minmatar Republic, not the Minmatar [Empire/State/Nation/WhateverWordYouWantUsToUse].

Personally, I'm not terribly fond of democracy, and I know it won't work for us in the Gallentean format. At best, we'd need to adapt the concept to fit our Tribal systems, at worse we'd have to either abandon our tribal system (an unacceptable idea) or forego democracy altogether (preferable by far).


Empire. We were "The Minmatar Empire." I suppose Republic sounds better.

Various Amarrian emperors have been trying to sue us for peace for years now, they are in no position to reclaim anybody.

Quote:
Regardless of the potential for practical application, that doesn't make it any less true that it had largely become tradition and ritual.


War is not a ritual.

Katarina Musana wrote:

Which brings me to another point, you are either oblivious or simply an idiot if you think that I, or my clan, has ever had any interest in accepting Gallentean culture and way of life. As I already stated, my clan are Vherokior traditionalists.


I was unaware that "doing things for money" in Gallente clubs was a Vherokior tradition. I think it's probably more of a Gallente tradition don't you agree?

Katarina Musana wrote:

Brutor are the traditional warriors, boy. Sebiestor and Vherokior, while having some warrior elements certainly, have never been the militant ones. It's not a lack of "cultivating a warrior ethos" that drives some of our people from the Republic. It's our weak economy and poor standard of living in much of the Republic that does it because we've been struggling to build ourselves up after centuries of slavery.

And your assessment regarding Halete is completely flawed. She didn't turn against the Republic because we don't teach our youth to be warriors. She turned against the Republic because we do teach our youth to be warriors, to seek out bloodshed, and deny the possibility of peace.


Every tribe has warrior traditions, and every tribe has made war on the others, right up to the founding of the Minmatar Empire when we came together for the first time.

Whatever reasons people think they have, it comes down to a sense of belonging and purpose.

Strong cultures inspire unity, industry, and success.

Weak cultures inspire treachery, excuses and failure.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#60 - 2013-06-13 08:43:01 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
Empire. We were "The Minmatar Empire." I suppose Republic sounds better.

Various Amarrian emperors have been trying to sue us for peace for years now, they are in no position to reclaim anybody.


The only reason they're not in a position to reclaim us currently is the Gallente helping us makes is strong enough to fend them off. If they came for us and the Federation didn't help us, we'd lose. We'd put up one hell of a fight and it likely wouldn't really be worth it for the Amarr Empire to do it, but they'd still win. We're not that strong yet by any means.

As for being the Minmatar Empire, yes, that's what we called ourselves back before the Amarr Empire came and enslaved us. That doesn't mean it's what we have to call ourselves now, nor does Empire really describe the form of government the Federation convinced us to go with when we were re-establishing ourselves as a nation. It may not be as accurate now, but as I said, it would cause confusion if we changed the name now.

Quote:
War is not a ritual.


It had been a very long time since we'd had any kind of war before the Amarr came. Our tribes were at peace with each other and we had formed a centralized government with all our tribes working together.

Quote:
I was unaware that "doing things for money" in Gallente clubs was a Vherokior tradition. I think it's probably more of a Gallente tradition don't you agree?


Gallentean club? Where the hell did you get this idea? You're clearly refering to my comment in the romance thread about my occupation when my husband was attending university. There's not many universities in the desert. We weren't living with our tribe at the time. We were living in the city where his university was located. This was on Matar and the establishment was owned and run by a Brutor woman, and every employee and customer was Matari as well.

Clubs are hardly a Gallentean exclusive. Also, among the Vherokior, especially my clan and the other clans I've interacted with on Matar, we have very few taboos regarding sex, so I was hardly violating any traditional views of my clan. You think we didn't have strip clubs in the old Minmatar Empire? Or prostitutes?

Quote:
Every tribe has warrior traditions, and every tribe has made war on the others, right up to the founding of the Minmatar Empire when we came together for the first time.


The Vherokior were never really that involved in war, at least not directly. Once we returned from our exile in the desert, we may have been involved somewhat with selling weapons and such, but warrior traditions? Not that extensive, really. What traditions we still had were just remnants of when we'd been Starkmanir before our ancestors were exiled. And very little of that even remains today.

As for Sebiestor warrior tradition, maybe you should ask Ava Starfire about that, but it sure as hell doesn't fit what I've learned of Sebiestor.

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Whatever reasons people think they have, it comes down to a sense of belonging and purpose.

Strong cultures inspire unity, industry, and success.

Weak cultures inspire treachery, excuses and failure.


Purpose? Yes. Belonging? Not necessarily.

Treachery is present in every culture, no matter how strong or weak. As are excuses and failures.

In fact, you've actually got it the wrong way around. Unity, industry, and success inspire strong cultures.

And by strong, I mean sturdy, resilient. Strength is not only found in combat and war. You would do well to learn this. And no, this is not Gallentean influence talking. This is something that we Vherokior learned long ago, and the more traditional Sebiestor I know have learned it as well.

You are right that we should not be simply embracing Gallentean culture, especially if it means losing our own culture. But you'd do best to gain a firmer grasp of our own cultures before you go around trying to tell others of our people what they should be doing.