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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Caldari Naga

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Xhondo Dhoru
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#141 - 2011-11-05 13:38:22 UTC
What is with all the bears asking for a cruise bonus. This is not a pve ship.

Cruise are very rarely used in pvp and there are strong reasons that this is true.
If anything, give the Naga another torp bonus.

The option to go with hybrids or torps is cool, don't get me wrong.
Remember though, that the Rokh already has a large hybrid optimal bonus and has far more buffer to it's advantage. I can think of only one alliance in all of EVE that actually uses rokhs over some other ship (like maels) and they are not used very frequently.

Perhaps the hybrid adjustments will change this, but I doubt it.
Arthas Wallace
i am butthurt
#142 - 2011-11-05 13:42:16 UTC
Looks like an industrial ship.... terrible!
Tlat Ij
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#143 - 2011-11-05 14:10:19 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
Tlat Ij wrote:
Bonuses to torps, rails and blasters but not cruise missiles? Why do you hate cruise missiles CCP? Sad



Cruise missiles need a little more work than just an RoF bonus, I think...


That's not the point though. The point is you can't even FIT cruise missiles onto the thing. It can fit both BS level hybrids but only one type of BS level missiles, which is like saying it can only fit blasters but not railguns.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#144 - 2011-11-05 14:10:57 UTC
Xhondo Dhoru wrote:
What is with all the bears asking for a cruise bonus. This is not a pve ship.

Cruise are very rarely used in pvp and there are strong reasons that this is true.
If anything, give the Naga another torp bonus.

The option to go with hybrids or torps is cool, don't get me wrong.
Remember though, that the Rokh already has a large hybrid optimal bonus and has far more buffer to it's advantage. I can think of only one alliance in all of EVE that actually uses rokhs over some other ship (like maels) and they are not used very frequently.

Perhaps the hybrid adjustments will change this, but I doubt it.


This ship chance is that will have 2 different weapon bonus so it will not join the Rokh has hangar queen or mine rocks in space.

You will be able to use it with super torps, but hybrids? -hahaha hahahaha hahahahhahahahaha
Ammath
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2011-11-05 14:38:30 UTC
Is it just me or is this not close to Sark's carrier from the original TRON ?

Sark's Carrier
Dogma Rex
CSR Department of Transportation
Citizen's Star Republic
#146 - 2011-11-05 15:48:31 UTC
Firstly amazing ship, really like it Big smile

After a few hours testing the current version on the test server I have to say:

Works really well as a Railgun Platform with 8x 350mm Rails was doing some nice damage.

With the Siege Missiles could use a few extra % reduction in CPU requirement to optimise the fitting of the ship, to make it which will make it perfect for use with Siege Missiles.

Not sure but I think the Tier 3 Battlecruisers generally could use a small drone bay, have 5 light drones to launch at frigates, but if it gets added or not wont take away from the ships ability.
Ky Vatta
Majority 12
#147 - 2011-11-05 16:06:28 UTC
Firstly, what sort of bird is a Naga?? (really, CCP, you are running out of bird names for Caldari ships?)

Secondly, that design really sucks, it`s like cross between a Rokh and and Industrial...the design people must really be running out of ideasRoll
As the Caldari ships are getting drabber with every new design, it is no wonder I fly more Amarr ships
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#148 - 2011-11-05 16:22:24 UTC
Ky Vatta wrote:
Firstly, what sort of bird is a Naga?? (really, CCP, you are running out of bird names for Caldari ships?)

Secondly, that design really sucks, it`s like cross between a Rokh and and Industrial...the design people must really be running out of ideasRoll
As the Caldari ships are getting drabber with every new design, it is no wonder I fly more Amarr ships





/facepalm




CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Nowtony
Teeth brush and tooth paste
#149 - 2011-11-05 17:18:05 UTC
In the first picture, are those Missiles launcher ?! They looks like the 'Staline's Orgue' any chance to see them soon in - game or did you just create these for that picture ?!
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#150 - 2011-11-05 18:24:25 UTC
The look is growing on me.

The stats and bonuses continue to disgust me.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2011-11-05 20:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
lets not look at its look but stats and bonuses
ccp why split bonuses? one for rails and one for torps? wtf ... so if you fit eighter you are only using 1 bonus and it is a " stupid " optimal one which is crappy

eighter do 2 -2 bonuses for both hybrids and torps or add another one not weapon related , havent you learn anything from typhoon ,althou that have more slots and drones than the rest tier 1 bs to compensate+awesome speed and agility with good signiture

oh and the sensor range only 75km?? wtf is that? it gets optimal bonuses and doesnt have better sensor range than the other races?? wtf

again the slowest + fattest+ shittiest inertia every with crap lock speed too, oh and the best same cap recharge as the no cap use matar... rly??? this is the balance you can do? shame on you
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#152 - 2011-11-05 21:07:06 UTC
Too disgusted with this ship to even bother any more on sisi. Dear god, who thought this was a good idea?
Jahned
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2011-11-05 21:10:12 UTC
Ky Vatta wrote:
Firstly, what sort of bird is a Naga?? (really, CCP, you are running out of bird names for Caldari ships?)

Secondly, that design really sucks, it`s like cross between a Rokh and and Industrial...the design people must really be running out of ideasRoll
As the Caldari ships are getting drabber with every new design, it is no wonder I fly more Amarr ships




Hey bumbum, you are dumdum. This was a player designed ship, as are all of the tier 3 BCs. Besides, Naga is a serpent, and I do believe that there is such a thing as a winged serpent.
Haulin Aussie
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2011-11-05 22:00:16 UTC
Ky Vatta wrote:
Firstly, what sort of bird is a Naga?? (really, CCP, you are running out of bird names for Caldari ships?)

Secondly, that design really sucks, it`s like cross between a Rokh and and Industrial...the design people must really be running out of ideasRoll





What type of bird is a scorpion again? Roll
DemetRYS
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#155 - 2011-11-05 22:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: DemetRYS
:Sigh:

I just spent some time testing the naga on sisi and i'm just speechless. It's "flexibility," is alternating between awful rail dps or unapplicable torp/blaster dps. The overall dps numbers, regardless of fit (torp fit arguably just doesn't work with current CPU) are abyssmal. It's slow as a barn compared to the other new BCs. It brings nothing to the table in this form. Nothing.

Far be it from me to suggest something radical like a dedicated cruise-missile ship (which i'd love to see, pending some kind of cruise missile revamp in the future), but that's what feels best here. Unless the design scheme for caldari ships as bloated sig shield lumps, moving at the speed of continental drift, is dramaticall altered for this one ship there's no way it will make any headway as a torp boat or a blaster boat. Furthermore, dedicating it to rails will present us with another rokh. I think we all know that we don't want another rail sniper unless ccp really delivers a substantial amount of continued work on hybrid buffs.

In any event, the fact is that this split bonus charade isn't going to hold up. If the ship is released anywhere near this level of fail it will go down as a legendary example of CCP's disconnect with it's own game.

Edit: Yes, i'm mad.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#156 - 2011-11-05 22:55:14 UTC
DemetRYS wrote:
:Sigh:

I just spent some time testing the naga on sisi and i'm just speechless. It's "flexibility," is alternating between awful rail dps or unapplicable torp/blaster dps. The overall dps numbers, regardless of fit (torp fit arguably just doesn't work with current CPU) are abyssmal. It's slow as a barn compared to the other new BCs. It brings nothing to the table in this form. Nothing.

Far be it from me to suggest something radical like a dedicated cruise-missile ship (which i'd love to see, pending some kind of cruise missile revamp in the future), but that's what feels best here. Unless the design scheme for caldari ships as bloated sig shield lumps, moving at the speed of continental drift, is dramaticall altered for this one ship there's no way it will make any headway as a torp boat or a blaster boat. Furthermore, dedicating it to rails will present us with another rokh. I think we all know that we don't want another rail sniper unless ccp really delivers a substantial amount of continued work on hybrid buffs.

In any event, the fact is that this split bonus charade isn't going to hold up. If the ship is released anywhere near this level of fail it will go down as a legendary example of CCP's disconnect with it's own game.

Edit: Yes, i'm mad.


QFT
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#157 - 2011-11-06 00:02:56 UTC
I don't follow this either. They're supposed to be glass cannons, as they mount large weapons on a medium-ish hull.

So, CCP gives it range bonuses. The other 3 get damage/capacitor bonuses, yet the Naga does not?


And now, it can mount 3 separate weapon systems, yet does not have the bonuses to use them effectively- no damage bonus for the hybrids, and no target painter bonus for the torpedoes.

Seems to me that this particular setup gives it with one possible role, and leaves it unable to fill that role effectively.
Will DestroyYou
#158 - 2011-11-06 01:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Will DestroyYou
This is just another fine example of caldari recieving either nerfs or junk from every single update.


Those bonuses are just aweful. Not enough speed or missile range to use torps, not enough speed to use blasters, and not enough dps from railguns for such a tankless ship.


It's been, what, 8 years since caldari was near the top of the PVP races??? Isn't it about time for our turn???
*cough* like 2 years of our turn... (no, ECM was not "our turn", it was completely reliant on other fleet members to kill anything)



Possible Fix #1: (Specifically a naga fix)
Remove the hybrid bonuses and give the ship a stealth bomber style torp velocity and radius bonus so it can fly in drake gangs (cruise speed bonus would also be nice - enough speed to actually hit before the enemy titan raises it's finger at you, points and laughs for a good 3 minutes, and finally warps out); otherwise, this ship will be completely useless and not allowed in fleets like the rest of caldari.



Possible Fix #2: (Fix for all caldari)
Make missiles a hell of a lot faster. You have time dilation now, if lag was an issue before, it is not now! (not to mention time dilation also gives the enemy even more time to react to missiles and warp out)



Possible Fix #3: (The best option - fixes caldari and gallente at the same time)
The whole idea of hybrids in their current form is completely broken.

Instead of trying to patch something that will never be any good, do this:

Replace hybrids with a new weapon type, "flak". A turret without tracking, but with an explosion radius and velocity... Basicly like a missile but without the lag and waiting.

Give it to both caldari and gallente (requires a mix of missile and turret skills - or move the hybrid skills to missile group under the new flak name and let players respec their turret/missile skillpoints).

Advantages:
* Stupid hybrids finally replaced by something useable.
* Ammo damage type selection??? Bring it in line with missiles+projectiles.
* Gives gallente a decent PVP/PVE weapon.
* Gives caldari a decent PVP weapon.
* Possible FOF ammo? Makes sense that gallente would counter caldari ECM with FOF.
* Being sort of like a missile, it somewhat fits with gallente/caldari shared history.
* No more lag then a turret, alternative to caldari using missiles while still using most of their skills.
* Cool looking client-side explosion FX. (think - battlestar flak) Big smile
* Means there are 2 races using turrets and 2 using a type of missile. One shield, one armor. Balance and symetry.
* Most of the implementation is simply search and replace. Only a small bit of coding to make it use missile calculations and FX at the target point.
* Without the tracking issues, the short range version of the weapon will have no problems. The new weapons can keep the old hybrid ranges and work perfectly.
* This is a permanent fix, not just a patch for something inherantly broken/useless.

Disadvantages:
* Some players will need to respec some skillpoints - but there is already a system in place to do this (so no issue here).

^^^ this is the perfect LONG-TERM solution to both missile lag, and caldari/gallente!!!
Kordoc
Death Metal Rooster
#159 - 2011-11-06 06:03:55 UTC
Love the look.
Its naked military technology. It's basically a pulse-rifle with a hyperdrive bolted on. Just one look at it and you know there aren't gonna be any Jacuzzis on board.
Dare Devel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#160 - 2011-11-06 08:17:32 UTC
Will DestroyYou wrote:
Disadvantages:
* Some players will need to respec some skillpoints - but there is already a system in place to do this (so no issue here).

[b]^^^ this is the perfect LONG-TERM solution to both missile lag, and caldari/gallente!!!



I am a noob. Could you tell me how I can re-allocate 4 mill SP that I have on hybrid into Projectiles?