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Dust, money well spent eh?

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Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#81 - 2013-05-30 22:11:46 UTC
Dust was always going to suffer against the likes of Battlefield and CoD, not only technically (this is CCP's first FPS, whereas Activision and DICE have had many cycles to hone their games) but also commercially - because Activision and EA can throw money at reviewers.

The big problem I think is that whilst EVE has the enviable position of being the premiere space MMO and therefore CCP has the luxury of being able to get things wrong, the whole "will get better in the years to come" model won't really work in the FPS space I don't think. BF4 and CoD 100 and beyond will leave it looking more and more lukewarm, and unless the Eve link starts to get some real teeth really fast, it's tough to see what longevity there will be in the game.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#82 - 2013-05-30 22:16:31 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I realize you have a personal agenda, that being you are irritated that it's not available for PC (which is somewhat ironic), but again you do not need to grind in DUST to develop a character. If you choose to you skill up more quickly, but by the same token if you play something completely unrelated for awhile you still gain skill points until you come back.

DUST only becomes a grind fest if you choose to play it that way, which is something those reviewers refuse to admit (if they even bothered to play it long enough to be aware of these facts to begin with).


obviously if you're reviewing a game you have a short time frame and you want to get the most out of it. and most players of MMOs and FPS games are used to playing intensely to level up their skills and weapons. the fact that CCP have compromised the eve style training plan to be grindable shows they know their market at least.

i really don't care if they port it if it's mediocre. i have several consoles and a good excuse to add another, particularly as i used to be a big playstation head, would be welcomed i assure you.

forums.  serious business.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#83 - 2013-05-30 22:21:49 UTC
Durzel wrote:
Dust was always going to suffer against the likes of Battlefield and CoD, not only technically (this is CCP's first FPS, whereas Activision and DICE have had many cycles to hone their games) but also commercially - because Activision and EA can throw money at reviewers.

The big problem I think is that whilst EVE has the enviable position of being the premiere space MMO and therefore CCP has the luxury of being able to get things wrong, the whole "will get better in the years to come" model won't really work in the FPS space I don't think. BF4 and CoD 100 and beyond will leave it looking more and more lukewarm, and unless the Eve link starts to get some real teeth really fast, it's tough to see what longevity there will be in the game.

I think it's an attitude problem. CCP assumes they can pull on the FPS community what they pull on us. The difference is there's nothing remotely as good in the 'flying in space' mmo market as EvE so we as players have no choice but to take it. We can complain all we want about the state of EvE development, but since EvE is the best one out there CCP can do no wrong.. we'll take it because we are spaceship geeks and there's nothing else worth trying right now. In the FPS world, however, DUST is not on top. There isn't much that separates DUST from CoD, BF4, or Halo other than a long list of gameplay shortcomings and undelivered projections about 'the future' of the presently non-existent DUST/EvE link.

I think CCP should look at both of their games from the perspective of a company trying to just now break into the market. Aggressive development is going to be critical if there's to be a 'second decade'.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#84 - 2013-05-30 23:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
DUST to-date... my experience of watching DUST trailers, anticipating the game, disappointment in the demo, and watching DUST CCP reacting (if you can call it that) to suggestions, reminds me a lot of Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Check it out:

DUST 514 announcement demo: DUST 514 demo | DUST as it actually is

  • Better explosions, textures, and effects, it's a different game engine than final product (ended up using Unreal 3. Unreal 4 available but too expensive for game, I guess.).
  • Vehicle control is a lot better. Let's see anyone in DUST right now driving like they do in this demo.
  • Graphics a lot better in demo.
  • Lots of features in demo omitted from final game.
  • Developer commits to continued updates and new features. Has yet to overcome most of the original criticism, or match their demo.


Aliens: Colonial Marines in-progress demo: Demo vs Final Product

  • Better explosions, textures, and effects, it's a different game engine than final product (ended up using Unreal 3. Unreal 4 available but too expensive for game, I guess.).
  • Graphics a lot better in demo than final.
  • Lots of features in demo omitted from final game.
  • Developer commits to continued updates and new features. Has yet to overcome most of the original criticism, or match their demo.


It's the same thing.

I'm not trying to diss DUST too much... I want to see it successful. I've spent a decent amount of rl cash to support it too. However, you have to look at the reality of the situation: DUST is free. My time is not. If the game isn't good RIGHT NOW, it's not a good game. Maybe it can be a good game in the future... but it needs to get real quick and there's not much sign of anything but little tweaks coming up in the near future.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#85 - 2013-05-30 23:36:47 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
On the one hand it's IGN, finger toy of the Fox conglomerate, on the other hand it does raise valid points. Also gj whoever made goonfeet, you dirty fetishist you.


Radio Announcer One: FOX is covering the Super Bowl
Radio announcer Two: Which Team? P
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2013-05-30 23:37:12 UTC
People take IGN seriously?
Dring Dingle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2013-05-30 23:40:50 UTC
ahahah..... typical cod style player. i want a WIN button.
the controls just take getting used to. and i like that the aiming is more realistic. you cant just spin around (180') in a split second, aim down the sights and have mirco control over where your red dot is. < thats just unrealistic.

not to mention... you can play with a keyboard if you lack coordination

was just a **** review from someone already in a mindset.

one thing i do agree with is the blocky / bulky graphics... cpp come on. you can do better than that. i dont mind downloading a tonne of texture packs. maybe for the ps4?

floating in space
#88 - 2013-05-30 23:41:09 UTC
Othran wrote:
Wow that's a bad bad review. Couldn't get a lot worse than that.


Yeah, I don't read many game reviews but I'm used to seeing fluff pieces with a score of 8+
Drunken Bum
#89 - 2013-05-30 23:43:55 UTC
This games getting crap reviews everywhere. Are any of you surprised? Really? They shoulda made it on pc.

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#90 - 2013-05-30 23:49:09 UTC
Othran wrote:
Wow that's a bad bad review. Couldn't get a lot worse than that.

This bit made me laugh Lol

"And truth be told, most normal players will never participate in a battle of real significance anyhow, because at this point nearly every territory is held by well-run super corps that have more than 200 members and strong ties to the most influential EVE guilds."

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose as the garlic eaters would say.....


Clearly the author of that quote thinks everything should be available to the solo player.

He literally doesn't know how to play, he should learn that before doing a review...

...even if it takes him a few years and a few ships Lol
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#91 - 2013-05-30 23:51:00 UTC
"Prices are reasonable, but whether you're using real (AUR) or in-game (ISK) currency, you lose a copy of every piece of gear in a loadout each time you die, so you'll be making regular post-match trips to the marketplace to restock whatever you just lost. Such high stakes can add tension and excitement to a battle, but at the expense of making new players feel nickeled and dimed every time an experimental loadout goes wrong. It’s less pay-to-win and more "pay to see all the cool stuff,” but this is still one of those cases where free-to-play artificially stymies player advancement in the name of the almighty dollar."



Ouch...they really made a F2P console shooter with gear loss, friendly fire and a cash shop?

It looked terrible in that video. That choppy running/aiming and crappy hit detection would drive me nuts. Put Dust in the Incarna bin and focus on EVE.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-05-30 23:54:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
When did IGN become credible reviewers?

This. IGN? Credible? The f*ck is wrong with OP, IGN has never been, is not, and will never be a credible website. They most probably get paid by the game companies to do reviews, handing out the highest scores to the top payers. Basically, they're prostitutes.
Malak Dawnfire
Unquestionable Prosperity
Grand Inquisitors Federation
#93 - 2013-05-30 23:56:50 UTC
Man, Dust looks kinda ugly for a PS3 game, hard to believe I nearly mistook it for Planetside 2 on a stream.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#94 - 2013-05-30 23:59:48 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
At the moment though it's painfully apparent that the reviewer is still thinking in terms of other FPS games on the market.

You are faulting the reviewer from comparing DUST to its competition?

The complaints the reviewer makes are the same ones voiced all throughout Beta by the playtesters. DUST is what it is because it continued on the path it started out on instead of adapting to feedback.

The CE DUST items...be interesting to see what the populations are in October when they can be claimed.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#95 - 2013-05-31 00:02:10 UTC
Quote:


But it has everything to do with implementing regular game play improvements and bug fixes, which are facts I pointed out that you have chosen to conveniently overlook. Smile


When a review is done it is done on the product at that point not what might or might not happen further down the line.


Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#96 - 2013-05-31 00:05:42 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
What game got terrible reviews but bounced back? Anyone?

Diablo 2.
Malak Dawnfire
Unquestionable Prosperity
Grand Inquisitors Federation
#97 - 2013-05-31 00:06:56 UTC
Setaceous wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
What game got terrible reviews but bounced back? Anyone?

Diablo 2.


Can we compare another FPS clone to something that pretty much started online gaming as we know it?
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#98 - 2013-05-31 00:35:33 UTC
Hardcore fps guy, both on pc and xbox. Borrowed a PS3 just to play Dust.

Basically, the game has squishy controls for my tastes. Agreed. But there's also skills to take into account. Just focusing on the sniper rifle, I went from one or two kills a match to 15. Part of it was l2p, but I'm certain part was the skill bonuses itself.

Here's a tip to CCP: FPS guys HATE roleplaying, almost to a man. They don't like that their character isn't a representation of their personal skill. They like to feel like badasses. So bring an FPS guy into Dust, and watch him physically get sick from being a new character with crap abilities. ESPECIALLY if they are actually any good on a daily basis.

Dust won't be the FPS capital of the world, just like EvE isn't the MMO capital. But it will be that outstanding game that lies in the background and has an absolutely loyal following, by gamers who love it and will continue to support it for years to come.

So keep at it. Keep making it better. It definitely isn't a triple A title, by a long shot. But don't abandon where your headed just because somebody 'just didn't get it'.

Cause I have a feeling that IGN correspondent will be going back to Dust before long. No max rank, battles that CAN matter (once you understand the politics). And a universe bigger than a simple leaderboard. He may not know WHY he goes back, but I can tell you: Depth.

Make something go deep enough, and the ladies always come knocking again.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#99 - 2013-05-31 00:38:12 UTC
Malak Dawnfire wrote:
Setaceous wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
What game got terrible reviews but bounced back? Anyone?

Diablo 2.


Can we compare another FPS clone to something that pretty much started online gaming as we know it?


Wait, started online gaming?

You mean Ultima Online for proper MMO's, right?

Or maybe Doom for FPS's.

Diablo 2? WAY too recent to have 'started' anything.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
floating in space
#100 - 2013-05-31 00:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: floating in space
CCP : Would you like for us to develop EVE?

EVE community: NOO! EvilEvil At the very most please tweak the UI, and that's it! Also, hmmm, please try to break into the console FPS market in a way that you will be stuck with it for all eternity. Yes, yes sounds right. Goodluck CCP Bear

*Months later*

CCP: DUST is doing great guys, 6k players online at release.

EVE community: AWESOME JOB!

*Months later*

http://eve-offline.net: DUST514; ok (6,584 players)

IGN: This game sucks.

EVE community: HTFU no it doesn't! CCP btw the exploration changes kind of suck balls but I love the UI tweaks, keep up the good work on DUST!