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"bounty" on player ships
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sq0
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-28 13:03:38 UTC
Is it terrible idea to have "bounty" on player ships?

Secure commerce commision thanks you for boosting consumption by destroying ship with modules worth ~ XY isk and therefore is sending you X % of damage done in isk (maybe including x% of destroyed tuff in cargo also)

New isk sink, player more motivated to pvp. New tactics of targeting juicier targets etc.Player will go into pvp with actual vision of profit, not just satisfaction of ruining someone's day. Pvp could be new, risky method of income, not just way to have some fun and sooner o later loosing ship for which you farmed.
Mirina Avalhar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-05-28 13:10:50 UTC
Uh, this already exists, and has for some time... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bounty
sq0
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-05-28 13:19:45 UTC
There acctually needs to be bounty placed on player to get some. Basically the same, but automatic. I don't know statistics now, how this new bounty system is promoting pvp and how many players that are reachable have meaningfull bounty on them. How many players like to waste isk on bounty just for the feeling HAHA, someone will sometime maybe decide to attack this one instead of moving away because of my bounty.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#4 - 2013-05-28 13:35:29 UTC
Actually bounty on ships instead of players is not the worst idea.

At the moment if someone makes a killright public to everyone someone can just get rid of the killright by getting killed in a shuttle by a friend.

On the other hand you could just payout bounties (from the player) on kills > 10m or so (random number just to toss something different than Y).

My true stories
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#5 - 2013-05-28 13:46:57 UTC
This would need to be player driven, not server driven. If it was server driven CCP could just simply boost the odds of modules to drop when ships blow up. I could see this being restricted to certain systems or regions based off the ship hull of the players choosing.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#6 - 2013-05-28 13:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Mirina Avalhar wrote:
Uh, this already exists, and has for some time... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bounty


From the link above it states:

Quote:

Example: If you have a 150 million bounty on you and the loss value of the kill report is 100 million, then 20 million will be paid out, leaving your remaining bounty at 130 million. If the bounty pool had been 15 million instead, then the entire 15 million would have been paid out on the kill.


I'm not quite sure how this is different to what you're proposing?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Minerva Achaea
Entropic Doom
#7 - 2013-05-29 22:29:42 UTC
sq0 wrote:
Is it terrible idea to have "bounty" on player ships?

Secure commerce commision thanks you for boosting consumption by destroying ship with modules worth ~ XY isk and therefore is sending you X % of damage done in isk (maybe including x% of destroyed tuff in cargo also)

New isk sink, player more motivated to pvp. New tactics of targeting juicier targets etc.Player will go into pvp with actual vision of profit, not just satisfaction of ruining someone's day. Pvp could be new, risky method of income, not just way to have some fun and sooner o later loosing ship for which you farmed.


I'll pay you to kill people.

Entropic Doom

Entropic Dooom: get paid to kill people! Revenue paid out weighted by destruction. Guaranteed 100M isk total weekly payout. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3108383
Mag's
Azn Empire
#8 - 2013-05-29 22:39:05 UTC
sq0 wrote:
Is it terrible idea to have "bounty" on player ships?
Yes.
Repackaging. Recycling. Trading. All would require mechanics to stop them, ending up in a system worse than the current one.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-05-30 01:12:04 UTC
You could arrange it so that recycling, repackaging, trading, or what have you wouldn't affect things. If by setting a ship bounty on another player the bounty is paid out when and where their current ship is destroyed and the amount of the payout is limited to, for example, 25% of the maximum insurable value then quite a few concerns go out the window.

Repackaging the ship doesn't matter because it's whatever ship the pilot is currently in, nor does trading or recycling matter. Having friends pound your ship into scrap for you, or doing it yourself with an alt, isn't as much of a concern either due to payout limits. I won't say it's impossible for them to turn a profit on it of course, but a raven, for example, costs approximately as much to buy as the maximum insurance payout, and with the Platinum premium being 30% of the maximum payout and the ship bounty only being 25% it'll be a net 5% loss to buy ships off the market for approximately the same price as the maximum insurance payout.

It's not a perfect solution of course, and I'm sure there might be market/insurance/manufacturing-related quirks that aren't apparent now or from one small test case, but it's an option. The only place where it really breaks down is if the person with the ship bounty is in a rookie frigate when they get their ship blown out from under them,
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#10 - 2013-05-30 09:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Basically, you want a system that gives you free ISK for destroying ships despite the fact that no bounty is ever placed? Sure, we could use more pointless ISK faucets. With this, not only can I get ISK for ship insurance, I can get ISK for ship bounties. What could possibly go wrong?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#11 - 2013-05-30 16:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Shereza wrote:
You could arrange it so that recycling, repackaging, trading, or what have you wouldn't affect things. If by setting a ship bounty on another player the bounty is paid out when and where their current ship is destroyed and the amount of the payout is limited to, for example, 25% of the maximum insurable value then quite a few concerns go out the window.

Repackaging the ship doesn't matter because it's whatever ship the pilot is currently in, nor does trading or recycling matter. Having friends pound your ship into scrap for you, or doing it yourself with an alt, isn't as much of a concern either due to payout limits. I won't say it's impossible for them to turn a profit on it of course, but a raven, for example, costs approximately as much to buy as the maximum insurance payout, and with the Platinum premium being 30% of the maximum payout and the ship bounty only being 25% it'll be a net 5% loss to buy ships off the market for approximately the same price as the maximum insurance payout.

It's not a perfect solution of course, and I'm sure there might be market/insurance/manufacturing-related quirks that aren't apparent now or from one small test case, but it's an option. The only place where it really breaks down is if the person with the ship bounty is in a rookie frigate when they get their ship blown out from under them,
Stating something doesn't matter, doesn't automatically make it true.

So if I have a ship with a bounty, how does that stop my simply recycling it to remove the bounty? If I have a ship with a bounty, how does this stop me repackaging it and trading it?

It's a pointless idea with countless issues, when we have a system that does the job already.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-30 22:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Shereza
Mag's wrote:
Stating something doesn't matter, doesn't automatically make it true.


No, but saying that something doesn't matter when it doesn't matter does make it true. It sets up the same situation with current bounties. You don't know, when you place a bounty, if they're going to be flying around in a clone with uber-expensive implants when they get podded for their bounty or not, and you won't know, when you place a ship bounty, if they're flying around in their fancy faction ship when it gets blown up or not.

Mag's wrote:
So if I have a ship with a bounty, how does that stop my simply recycling it to remove the bounty?


Because the bounty is associated with the player and paid out on the basis of what they're currently flying regardless of whatever it is?

Mag's wrote:
If I have a ship with a bounty, how does this stop me repackaging it and trading it?


It doesn't, but the next ship you undock in will provide a bounty fee if it's blown up by another player because the bounty is associated with the player, not the ship.

Mag's wrote:
It's a pointless idea with countless issues, when we have a system that does the job already.


If you adjust the original idea to associate the bounty with the player and pay it out up to a maximum of 25% of the platinum insurance payout for a ship a lot of the issues are minimized or outright eliminated.

Honestly, there are two reasons to consider a ship bounty.
#1 From an RP/IG perspective it's not entirely practical that there is no, "I don't want him dead, but I do want to send a message" type bounty options. Providing a bounty for anyone to blow someone's ship(s) out from under them provides that.

#2 Current bounty payouts are, AFAIK, payable only on podding which creates a lot of hassles if you attempt to exercise that in high-sec. Ship bounties, as opposed to pod bounties, would be simpler to execute, pun intended. The low payout value works not only to reduce/eliminate some abuse issues, but it also helps reflect the easier, lower risk nature of collecting ship bounties as opposed to pod bounties.

Just to reiterate so that nobody is confused, when I say "ship bounty" I mean a bounty placed on another player that is paid out solely when the ship they are flying, regardless of what that ship is, is blown up by another player. This is not a bounty tied to any ship itself.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#13 - 2013-05-31 07:59:25 UTC
Shereza wrote:


No, but saying that something doesn't matter when it doesn't matter does make it true. It sets up the same situation with current bounties. You don't know, when you place a bounty, if they're going to be flying around in a clone with uber-expensive implants when they get podded for their bounty or not, and you won't know, when you place a ship bounty, if they're flying around in their fancy faction ship when it gets blown up or not.
It still doesn't make it true, sorry. Blink

Shereza wrote:
Because the bounty is associated with the player and paid out on the basis of what they're currently flying regardless of whatever it is?
I asked because the thread suggests placing the bounty on the ship. If it's on the ship, how does it follow the player?

Shereza wrote:
It doesn't, but the next ship you undock in will provide a bounty fee if it's blown up by another player because the bounty is associated with the player, not the ship.
You don't seem to be reading the same thread. He wants it on the ship.

Shereza wrote:
If you adjust the original idea to associate the bounty with the player and pay it out up to a maximum of 25% of the platinum insurance payout for a ship a lot of the issues are minimized or outright eliminated.
But the bounty is on the ship with this idea, not the player.

Shereza wrote:
Honestly, there are two reasons to consider a ship bounty.
#1 From an RP/IG perspective it's not entirely practical that there is no, "I don't want him dead, but I do want to send a message" type bounty options. Providing a bounty for anyone to blow someone's ship(s) out from under them provides that.

#2 Current bounty payouts are, AFAIK, payable only on podding which creates a lot of hassles if you attempt to exercise that in high-sec. Ship bounties, as opposed to pod bounties, would be simpler to execute, pun intended. The low payout value works not only to reduce/eliminate some abuse issues, but it also helps reflect the easier, lower risk nature of collecting ship bounties as opposed to pod bounties.

Just to reiterate so that nobody is confused, when I say "ship bounty" I mean a bounty placed on another player that is paid out solely when the ship they are flying, regardless of what that ship is, is blown up by another player. This is not a bounty tied to any ship itself.
So not a ship bounty, which this thread is about. Merely a bounty as we have now..... Mkay Roll

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#14 - 2013-05-31 08:11:40 UTC
sq0 wrote:
New isk sink


What you're describing is literally the opposite of this.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#15 - 2013-05-31 08:25:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
sq0 wrote:
Is it terrible idea to have "bounty" on player ships?

Secure commerce commision thanks you for boosting consumption by destroying ship with modules worth ~ XY isk and therefore is sending you X % of damage done in isk (maybe including x% of destroyed tuff in cargo also)

New isk sink, player more motivated to pvp. New tactics of targeting juicier targets etc.Player will go into pvp with actual vision of profit, not just satisfaction of ruining someone's day. Pvp could be new, risky method of income, not just way to have some fun and sooner o later loosing ship for which you farmed.

Mirina Avalhar wrote:
Uh, this already exists, and has for some time... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Bounty

Quote:
Example: If you have a 150 million bounty on you and the loss value of the kill report is 100 million, then 20 million will be paid out, leaving your remaining bounty at 130 million. If the bounty pool had been 15 million instead, then the entire 15 million would have been paid out on the kill.

Shereza wrote:

#2 Current bounty payouts are, AFAIK, payable only on podding which creates a lot of hassles if you attempt to exercise that in high-sec. Ship bounties, as opposed to pod bounties, would be simpler to execute, pun intended. The low payout value works not only to reduce/eliminate some abuse issues, but it also helps reflect the easier, lower risk nature of collecting ship bounties as opposed to pod bounties.

Just to reiterate so that nobody is confused, when I say "ship bounty" I mean a bounty placed on another player that is paid out solely when the ship they are flying, regardless of what that ship is, is blown up by another player. This is not a bounty tied to any ship itself.


Is this some kind of new forum flash mob event: "thread of stupidness" or "dont read - never stop posting"?

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#16 - 2013-05-31 09:14:25 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
...snip for sanity....

Is this some kind of new forum flash mob event: "thread of stupidness" or "dont read - never stop posting"?
Indeed. But then apparently saying that something doesn't matter when it doesn't matter, does make it true. Or so I've been told. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-31 09:26:06 UTC
Mag's wrote:
It still doesn't make it true, sorry. Blink


You're absolutely right. What makes it true is that by having the bounty linked to the player and not a specific ship any ship they fly, any ship at all, pays out the ship bounty upon destruction which in turn obviates the concerns over whether or not the ship they're flying when the bounty is placed gets reprocessed, traded, repackaged, or poofed by a GM.

Mag's wrote:
You don't seem to be reading the same thread. He wants it on the ship.


Which there were problems with. I counter-suggested something more viable in response to your concerns. You then proceeded to read whatever you wanted to read instead of what I posted and try to s*** down my throat over it. Trust me, I'm reading the thread.

Mag's wrote:
So not a ship bounty, which this thread is about. Merely a bounty as we have now..... Mkay Roll


Right, you got it. A bounty that pays out only when a player controlled ship is destroyed, not when they're podded or when they fart in their pod goo, is absolutely not a ship bounty. So if it's not a ship bounty why does it only pay out when the ship is destroyed? I mean bounty, paid out when ship is destroyed, ship bounty... I'm seeing a connection there.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#18 - 2013-05-31 09:51:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Shereza wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It still doesn't make it true, sorry. Blink


You're absolutely right. What makes it true is that by having the bounty linked to the player and not a specific ship any ship they fly, any ship at all, pays out the ship bounty upon destruction which in turn obviates the concerns over whether or not the ship they're flying when the bounty is placed gets reprocessed, traded, repackaged, or poofed by a GM.
Yes I am right. Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

Shereza wrote:
Which there were problems with. I counter-suggested something more viable in response to your concerns. You then proceeded to read whatever you wanted to read instead of what I posted and try to s*** down my throat over it. Trust me, I'm reading the thread.
No you merely repeated how it didn't matter, I pointing out it did as I was discussing the OP's idea.

Shereza wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So not a ship bounty, which this thread is about. Merely a bounty as we have now..... Mkay Roll


Right, you got it. A bounty that pays out only when a player controlled ship is destroyed, not when they're podded or when they fart in their pod goo, is absolutely not a ship bounty. So if it's not a ship bounty why does it only pay out when the ship is destroyed? I mean bounty, paid out when ship is destroyed, ship bounty... I'm seeing a connection there.
Which is what we have now, a payout on a destroyed ship. Thanks for posting.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-05-31 19:23:20 UTC
Mag's wrote:
No you merely repeated how it didn't matter, I pointing out it did as I was discussing the OP's idea.


So you were reading whatever it was you wanted to read and not what I actually posted? Glad we cleared that up. Roll
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-05-31 19:53:52 UTC
Shereza wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No you merely repeated how it didn't matter, I pointing out it did as I was discussing the OP's idea.


So you were reading whatever it was you wanted to read and not what I actually posted? Glad we cleared that up. Roll

You are an idiot.

You keep suggesting the EXACT SAME MECHANIC that we have right now. That is, a bounty tied to the player that gets payed out whenever he gets blowed up, based on the value of the ship he was flying.
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