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Thin veil of democracy, fallen. - Skarkon II liberation anniversary - [WHIST] Public Announcement

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-05-30 16:58:40 UTC
You know, talking of the Sansha, as much as I hate the True Slave Foundation, I can (very slightly) understand their mistaken beliefs about what Sansha's Nation actually represents. Sansha's Nation is a very addictive cult of personality around a fiercely charismatic and dangerously intelligent psychopath who tells the outcasts of society that they're not hte problem, the problem is other people, humanity is wicked, free will is evil and all of it needs to be controlled. That's a really attractive and engaging concept for people who feel rejected or disenfranchised by their own societies.

You want a good example of this? Look at Solarienne.

It's a delusion, yes, but there's a lot of reasons I can see why people cling to that delusion. But the Angel Cartel? The Serpentis? They don't pretend to be good people when they're quite obviously not. Launette Vylier openly celebrated the deaths of thousands when she bombed a city in a fit of pique that they wouldn't comply with her demand to help them perform actions which she quite obviously knew were illegal in the jurisdiction she was attempting to perform them in. Kalela Ohturold subsequently made jokes about "snorting the ashes of Rilnais." They're not pretending that they're just normal folk, just trying to survive in a cruel universe. They're doing the jobs they've been assigned and stamping on anyone who gets in their way, consequences be damned.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have any respect or love for Vylier or Ohturold, but at least they don't pretend to be righteous.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#62 - 2013-05-30 17:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Leopold Caine
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Ha ha! Make an unreasonable request, then act offended and pretend to be vindicated when the unreasonable request is declared to be unreasonable.


I'm sorry, but I haven't made any requests. You're the one constantly nitpicking and trying to discredit my points by any means necessary. I would've thought you'd give up after some time, but I guess your fervor is only matched by your stupidity.


Quote:
Leopold Caine wrote:
Angel Cartel Bloc

Let's stop this right here.


The Angel Cartel Bloc is the assembly of capsuleer corporations aligned, and loyal to the Angel Cartel, in contact with its representatives, upolding its beliefs, practices and modus operandi. Jumping to conclusions much, aren't we.

In any case, that's all you need to know, Federal. Or you can send another Brynn Jerdola over. That went well.

Quote:
...This is all fairly meaningless hypothesis anyway because you most likely didn't deliver anything to the planet.


See, this is why it's hard to make a sensible conversation with zealots. You should send the Amarr a postcard, msr. Ixiris. You're more akin to them than you'd probably like to admit.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Laria Raven
The Scope
#63 - 2013-05-30 17:23:53 UTC
M. Ixiris. If I suggested that you might, just might, struggle with subtext, would that be unbearably rude?

Let's assume that I have few illusions. That I like being an Angel. That I know exactly what the people I work for are.

Where then does that leave us?

Fallen from grace. And as night comes, may flights of Angels visit your sleep... shoot your ships and steal all of your stuff.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-05-30 17:53:36 UTC
Laria Raven wrote:
Let's assume that I have few illusions. That I like being an Angel. That I know exactly what the people I work for are.

Where then does that leave us?

That you're a person with some degree of amorality who works for demonstrably amoral people, doesn't much care about it and doesn't lie about it?

Would you like a medal?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2013-05-30 17:54:06 UTC
Ladies
Handbags
Put them away and agree to disagree.
There we go.
I am dreadfully sorry for having missed your soiree Leopold, what with my fluid routers being on the blink and various other shenanigans out here in the deep black that required my total undivided, your little get together completely slipped my mind.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#66 - 2013-05-30 18:03:38 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Laria Raven wrote:
Let's assume that I have few illusions. That I like being an Angel. That I know exactly what the people I work for are.

Where then does that leave us?

That you're a person with some degree of amorality who works for demonstrably amoral people, doesn't much care about it and doesn't lie about it?

Would you like a medal?


Last I checked, the Theology Council would deem you as an amoral heretic as well, Msr. Ixiris.

You are entitled to your own opinion of our faction. Don't broadcast it like it's some kind of an universal, general statement however.

Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Ladies
Handbags
Put them away and agree to disagree.
There we go.
I am dreadfully sorry for having missed your soiree Leopold, what with my fluid routers being on the blink and various other shenanigans out here in the deep black that required my total undivided, your little get together completely slipped my mind.


No worries, Ms. Adrelana. We had enough firepower to lock the system down for some time; in that sense your letter of support is much more appreciated. I don't hold it against you that you had some obligations on the side to take care of.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#67 - 2013-05-30 18:03:53 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Laria Raven wrote:
Let's assume that I have few illusions. That I like being an Angel. That I know exactly what the people I work for are.

Where then does that leave us?

That you're a person with some degree of amorality who works for demonstrably amoral people, doesn't much care about it and doesn't lie about it?

Would you like a medal?


I think I'd rather have a Cynabal. They practically give those things away if you know the right people.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#68 - 2013-05-30 18:17:33 UTC
Karmilla Strife wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Laria Raven wrote:
Let's assume that I have few illusions. That I like being an Angel. That I know exactly what the people I work for are.

Where then does that leave us?

That you're a person with some degree of amorality who works for demonstrably amoral people, doesn't much care about it and doesn't lie about it?

Would you like a medal?


I think I'd rather have a Cynabal. They practically give those things away if you know the right people.


Definitely the best ship you can get out of 600 thousand units of Tritanium, even if you don't.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Julianus Soter
Blades of Liberty
#69 - 2013-05-30 18:19:03 UTC
I prefer Gilas, honestly. Far superior resilience and generally cheaper on open market.

Moira. Corporation CEO, Executor, Villore Accords, @Julianus_Soter https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99001634/

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-05-30 18:19:43 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Last I checked, the Theology Council would deem you as an amoral heretic as well, Msr. Ixiris.

Actually, the term "heretic" is reserved for members of the faith who still believe but deviate significantly and controvertially from orthodoxy. The phrase they used in their last communique to me was "contemptible disbeliever."

I think they have a sliding scale.

Leopold Caine wrote:
You are entitled to your own opinion of our faction. Don't broadcast it like it's some kind of an universal, general statement however.

Well... I wouldn't, but it kind of is. Membership in the Angel Cartel is considered illegal by CONCORD, all four major empires, both of the Amarr Empire's satellite states and is at the very least unwelcome in the vast majority of non-capsuleer nullsec holdings. Even in the capsuleer nullsec holdings that don't explicitly outlaw the Cartel's presence, you have people shooting your ships by the thousands every single day. Pretty much everyone thinks you're one kind of scum or another - and even the actual representatives of the Serpentis and Cartel don't bother denying it, as I mentioned in that large section of my post that you conveniently edited out in your reply to make it look like you'd addressed every point I'd made when you hadn't.

Pretty much everyone does think the Cartel are amoral, up to and including the Cartel themselves - it's just that the Cartel just don't happen to care.

You want to see what an actual Angel Cartel loyalist looks like? Vincent Pryce. Man does what the Cartel needs doing and doesn't constantly try to justify his behaviour or assuage his guilt with crocodile tears and "humanitarian" "efforts." I'm not saying I respect it, I'm not saying I like it, but at least the man isn't delusional.

... well, at least when he's not hopped up on enough boosters to get a nebula high.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#71 - 2013-05-30 20:15:48 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Membership in the Angel Cartel is considered illegal by CONCORD, all four major empires...


I love the part where CONCORD is so relevant one of the five major empires, right after one of it openly attacked it to be able to perform genocide. But, let's not derail the thread.


Quote:
...you have people shooting your ships by the thousands every single day.


Also, let's not get into the part where Republic and Federation lose hundreds of ships daily to capsuleers living in Curse alone. Not to mention they lose even more to baseliner crews alone. Unless you think Tempests and Megathrons can somehow best Machariels and Vindicators. On angel native ground.
That must've been a political decision anyway.

Quote:
Pretty much everyone does think the Cartel are amoral.


You kind of missed my point.
Angel Cartel has its own set of morals which we adhere to., a strict sense of loyalty and a set of values. I can tell you we are all quite well behaved and upstanding citizens. It's just a pity your viewpoint is different than ours.

But, so far, you're still considered an amoral heretic by the Theology Council.

So, welcome to the club.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-05-30 20:27:19 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
You kind of missed my point.

I do that a lot.

Would help if you had one.

Leopold Caine wrote:
Angel Cartel has its own set of morals which we adhere to., a strict sense of loyalty and a set of values. I can tell you we are all quite well behaved and upstanding citizens. It's just a pity your viewpoint is different than ours.

Funny, because that's not what the actual Angel Cartel seems to think.

Leopold Caine wrote:
But, so far, you're still considered an amoral heretic by the Theology Council.

Remember this talk we had about how "heretic" refers to a believer whose beliefs differ significantly from dogma? Because that doesn't describe me.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#73 - 2013-05-30 20:36:34 UTC
Quote:
Leopold Caine wrote:
Angel Cartel has its own set of morals which we adhere to., a strict sense of loyalty and a set of values. I can tell you we are all quite well behaved and upstanding citizens. It's just a pity your viewpoint is different than ours.

Funny, because that's not what the actual Angel Cartel seems to think.


Oh right, we spend all day twirling our moustaches. All couple billions of the citizens of the Angel Cartel. Just as much as Amarrians whip their slaves all day. It's good to see Gallente propaganda is at least slightly effective. Good thing it's aimed at the feebleminded.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-05-31 13:23:12 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

Say de Republic is a failure, so what are you doing to help de people?

Teevin and hustlin.

Ya bring one hauler in 5 years and make a big display of it.

If not for de "failing Republic" der be Imperial yokes round ya necks.


Even if it was 'just one hauler', that would've been more than the Republic has done for Skarkon in the last 5 years.

It's simple really. We supplied Skarkon II with medical supplies and food. You can imagine all kind of conspiracy theories and secret agendas, but the fact is simple: We helped people of Skarkon II. The Republic hasn't. If you're going to sit in Pator with your thumb up your posterior and criticize other people's humanitarian efforts with failed attempts of smugness and cynicism, I believe that is telling more about yourself than ourselves.

Sapienti sat.


How you know what de Republic has or has not done

I don't have to "imagine" an agenda, you want dem to be an Angel Cartel colony. So where's de imagining part?

Hurf blurf
Maou Solidus
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-06-02 01:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Maou Solidus
Damn, I wish I'd had the privilege of attending.