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why have system gates? Technical (server side) issue or just legacy "we thought this was cool&q
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Adunh Slavy
#41 - 2013-05-29 17:17:15 UTC
All Eve needs for gateless PVP is a basic change to the directional scanner. Imagine if the DS always gave you a warpable result. The more narrow you set the scan, and the shorter the range, the more accurate it would be. but even at 256 AU range and 360 degrees, your result would get you closer to your target.

The opposing cost, for the traveler, would be the time it takes to get from system to system. They have to sit still, wait three minutes then can "jump", if they warp, cloak, MWD they have to start that process over again.

I might be a space game, but this isn't rocket science.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Corey Fumimasa
The Organization of Fire and Steel
Elementium Alliance
#42 - 2013-05-29 17:47:22 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
All Eve needs for gateless PVP is a basic change to the directional scanner. Imagine if the DS always gave you a warpable result. The more narrow you set the scan, and the shorter the range, the more accurate it would be. but even at 256 AU range and 360 degrees, your result would get you closer to your target.

The opposing cost, for the traveler, would be the time it takes to get from system to system. They have to sit still, wait three minutes then can "jump", if they warp, cloak, MWD they have to start that process over again.

I might be a space game, but this isn't rocket science.


It seems like that would be a huge nerf to missioners and people doing sites. As things stand now its a pretty good balance; a missioner paying attention to the dscan and chain jumping will be fine, If the dscan has warpable results those guys will be in trouble.
Adunh Slavy
#43 - 2013-05-29 21:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


It seems like that would be a huge nerf to missioners and people doing sites. As things stand now its a pretty good balance; a missioner paying attention to the dscan and chain jumping will be fine, If the dscan has warpable results those guys will be in trouble.


HTFU?

Also, there is nothing stopping the code from giving less accurate results for dead space areas. Heck, might even be cool to give less accurate results for objects that are near the magnetic poles of planets and things of that nature. Also nothing holding anything back from having an active/passive type of arragement with pings, echos and em or gravemetric shadows.

There's a wealth of options.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Praetor Meles
Black Mount Industrial
Breakpoint.
#44 - 2013-05-29 21:35:37 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
DP


Good grief! You didn't sign that post! Mr Epeen, is it really you?

[insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving*

  • delete as required to make your point
Haulin Gneiss
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-05-29 21:48:47 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
So, all of this because one of OPs toons died to a gate camp.

When youre the gatecamper: gates working as intended.
When youre the victim: gates are horribly broken, remove all the gates because (reasons/tears) and replace with (bad idea/no idea).
Everyone else: Who cares. Why fix what aint broken.


This is not the case. I died at a gate camp due to my stupidity....it was on the outbound side of the gate (I was leaving the system and they nabbed me).

If you hang this on storyline then why in the hell would an advanced race put gates connecting systems where you have to go system to system and not...say a gate that jumps from Dodixie to Jita direct? It would also stand to reason that the entities that were here before didn't connect all of the stars and therefore we're due more races, ships, and other reasonable expectations outside of space owned by bi-pedal monkey offspring.

I'm liking the spice space folding worm mutant storyline more and more.

Simple fact. the mechanic should be looked at instead of fancier gate animations that distract from the real problem.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#46 - 2013-05-29 22:45:23 UTC
Destoya wrote:
What is the alternate system that you propose to replace this integral part of the game?

And yes, stargates are very closely related to how your ship is handled on the server, which is the reason for the short loading time between each system jump.

I prposed a system last year involving all ships getting jump drives. In general the response revolved around the lore (because lore stops science from progressing), but mostly it was boo hoo about losing a choke point to gate camp.

I am hoping the MJD and other changes are a step to getting rid of gates. Just give me a list of available systems, with each system having a list of available jump in points (including safe spots) and let me have at. Then we could get rid of Concord at gates and...
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#47 - 2013-05-30 00:47:52 UTC
Use the game, not change the game.

Don't like gates, fly around in a jump freighter Big smile
Magin Thel Melkan
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2013-05-30 03:37:33 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:

anyway, regardless of how it happens, i think its already agreed among players that eventually we would like to see them gone, same with highsec, at least in its current form.


Speak for yourself please. And if hi sec disappears and I (and others) start loosing frieghters at 1.3B a pop, you will probably find yourself with a serious toy shortage.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
The Network.
#49 - 2013-05-30 04:55:20 UTC
Haulin Gneiss wrote:
Any observations here?


Because otherwise you would literally never have to see other pilots. Just think I could fly straight into deep goon carebear space and kill mission runners in one long warp and no one would be able to stop me. You need gates to bottleneck player routes so that PvP can actually occur and so people can protect or attack other people's space.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Clansworth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-05-30 05:11:11 UTC
The only way to remove gates would be to provide some other method to travel between star systems. Would be great if there was some small sized jump drive that could lock onto a distant star and give a random destination jump into that system. But would even capsules be able to jump from system to system?

Then there's the interaction point that gates provide - without that, you'd have to replace the 'just about anyone coming or going from our space will be going through here' idea with a system that says 'there is this guy over here, so it you want him, go get him. While yes, that would be awesome to have a fully live intelligence system in eve, where gang/corp/alliance mates could connect to an intel net, and their scanner information is updated, triangulated, etc - with that information aggregated and supplied to those same members in the form of warpable coordinates of any DETECTED craft (with variable level of detail and accuracy) - including sov and pos based structures also connected the intelnet to assist in adding home field advantage... I don't know that that would be any BETTER than the current mechanic, just different - and something that would be a little too drastic of a change for a live running universe to absorb.
Idicious Lightbane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-05-30 06:08:42 UTC
The ability to travel without gates exists already, and they require a large amount of effort. People who put in the effort to make it possible should have an advantage, those who don't will have chokepoints to move through. I'm of course referring to titan bridging and jumpbridge networks.
Corey Fumimasa
The Organization of Fire and Steel
Elementium Alliance
#52 - 2013-05-30 11:08:04 UTC
Haulin Gneiss wrote:

This is not the case. I died at a gate camp due to my stupidity....it was on the outbound side of the gate (I was leaving the system and they nabbed me).

If you hang this on storyline then why in the hell would an advanced race put gates connecting systems where you have to go system to system and not...say a gate that jumps from Dodixie to Jita direct? It would also stand to reason that the entities that were here before didn't connect all of the stars and therefore we're due more races, ships, and other reasonable expectations outside of space owned by bi-pedal monkey offspring.

I'm liking the spice space folding worm mutant storyline more and more.

Simple fact. the mechanic should be looked at instead of fancier gate animations that distract from the real problem.


Narrative and fluff are usually not a reason to alter mechanics, especially in this case. There's plenty of storyline reasons why gates would exist as they currently do; perhaps its far cheaper energy wise to bridge adjacent systems or maybe there is a risk of failure with gates that jump over multiple systems, maybe its part of the Yulai treaty that long bridges not be constructed in empire space.

You say "simple fact" like there is a problem and yet you only put forth these fluff ideas about what gates would theoretically be like. There is no problem with them currently, there may be ways to improve travel in Eve, but the current system works well enough.

The only simple fact here is that you died at a gate due to your own stupidity.
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#53 - 2013-05-30 16:21:12 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Haulin Gneiss wrote:

This is not the case. I died at a gate camp due to my stupidity....it was on the outbound side of the gate (I was leaving the system and they nabbed me).

If you hang this on storyline then why in the hell would an advanced race put gates connecting systems where you have to go system to system and not...say a gate that jumps from Dodixie to Jita direct? It would also stand to reason that the entities that were here before didn't connect all of the stars and therefore we're due more races, ships, and other reasonable expectations outside of space owned by bi-pedal monkey offspring.

I'm liking the spice space folding worm mutant storyline more and more.

Simple fact. the mechanic should be looked at instead of fancier gate animations that distract from the real problem.


Narrative and fluff are usually not a reason to alter mechanics, especially in this case. There's plenty of storyline reasons why gates would exist as they currently do; perhaps its far cheaper energy wise to bridge adjacent systems or maybe there is a risk of failure with gates that jump over multiple systems, maybe its part of the Yulai treaty that long bridges not be constructed in empire space.

You say "simple fact" like there is a problem and yet you only put forth these fluff ideas about what gates would theoretically be like. There is no problem with them currently, there may be ways to improve travel in Eve, but the current system works well enough.

The only simple fact here is that you died at a gate due to your own stupidity.

There used to be Highway gates in 2003/4/5. They got removed because it caused everyone to bunch at their central hub in Yulai, with the RP reason being the increase of hostilities between the four empires, which came to a head in Empyrean Age and still bubbles away.

Having a gate between Dodixie and Jita just means that anyone who would have gone to Dodixie goes (or tries to go) to Jita instead.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#54 - 2013-05-30 17:16:49 UTC
Haulin Gneiss wrote:
Thanks to everyone for your insightful comments. I guess I feel that eve is a very flat and linear game with respect to how you travel. The gate concept just seems too simple/easy given that they were here before humanoids arrived on scene.

There should be a mechanic where a player can warp/jump within a given distance to other stars and face certain penalties for the convenience. Perhaps a "cool down" period on the ship where you cannot warp/cloak after a long system to system jump or a time penalty where the trip is not instantaneous but takes say 5 minutes.


That kind of system would require some sort of 'grouping' mechanic to ensure that players actually run across each other. Something like entering a system lights up a signature people can warp to and you can't warp out or cloak for 2 minutes. Alternatively, people "coast" in system and always appear at the sun before regaining control of their ship. Additionally, the creation of choke points would require a massive restructuring of the star map.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea or that it could never work in a space PVP game. I'm saying it's a bad idea and could never work for Eve.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gustaf Heleneto
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-05-30 17:28:58 UTC
Please let me jump my freighter alt directly from Jita 4-4 to Amarr! No more ganking! Ohhhh, and the drrrruuuuugggggssss I would smuggle!!

Happy day.

Why even undock? When are we going to get teleport pads and just beam ourselves and our goods from station to station? Star Trek has them...
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