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When will EVE Online get a 64 bit client?

First post First post
Author
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#61 - 2013-05-30 09:22:00 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:

Just being able to utilize more memory would benefit the game. You cannot use more than 2GB with a 32bit system. If EVE could make use of more memory it would definitely see a marked improvement in how it runs. Keep trying to deny it.


I just want to step in and point something out:

No software uses more than two gigs of RAM unless it's specifically designed and programmed that way. High-end CAD programs, for example, are designed from the outset to use as much memory as they can access.

Going to 64-bit architecture wouldn't allow EvE to use more than two gigs (because it's not programmed that way). It would just permit the computer to address more than four gigs of RAM.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Shian Yang
#62 - 2013-05-30 09:40:23 UTC
Greetings capsuleer,

I love watching a capsuleer who has not trained Electronics delve into the field. I can recommend a few Caldari pilots that would happily sell you the skillbook. I believe even capsuleer Tippia may have a dusty one available.

Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Just being able to utilize more memory would benefit the game. You cannot use more than 2GB with a 32bit system. If EVE could make use of more memory it would definitely see a marked improvement in how it runs. Keep trying to deny it.


32 bits determines your addressable memory space. It has nothing to do with the other words you are throwing at the discussion in a vain attempt to look intelligent. And work it out for yourself ...

0 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1,024 ... 4,294,967,295. Memory is unsigned; not signed.

That space is addressable. Anything above that is not. Keep in mind that hardware devices will also use some of that addressable space; depending on a number of factors so it may be less.

Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Yes, but they are optimized for 64bit and so are modern CPU's with multiple cores. CCP Explorer has all ready said that EVE would run so much better if they could make us of multi-core and multi-thread programming that a 64bit client would allow for, and the greater memory access - and 32bit doesn't.


At the moment I have ExeFile.exe, a process launched by the EVE client utilising 59 threads. There will be context switching and I'm not about to delve in to try and decipher which of my cores is actively running this; but the beauty of a multi-threaded operating system is that it will natively utilise those benefits for you if you have multiple threads.

There will be a test later. Don't fail it again.

Regards,

Capsuleer Yang
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#63 - 2013-05-30 09:57:08 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade?


It isn't a minority. It is a majority.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2013-05-30 10:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
It's not just operating systems that prevent requiring DX11. Hardware is also a limitation, and for some (e.g. those with laptops) it's not so easy to upgrade the hardware. My laptop had the best card available when I bought it almost four years ago and it isn't DX11 capable.

You can have your nice things like tessellation and DX11 so long as they're made optional. There's no reason to shut out people who can't run DX11 especially considering so very few games actually do that (literally, there's only one game currently on market that requires DX11, everything else requires at most DX10.1).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-05-30 10:35:50 UTC
Because of this thread I will be reverting to 8-bit.

Things were so much simpler in those days.

Bear
Othran
Route One
#66 - 2013-05-30 12:16:56 UTC
Frank Millar wrote:
Because of this thread I will be reverting to 8-bit.

Things were so much simpler in those days.

Bear


Not 8-bit but I've actually worked on octal (base 8) computers - some ancient things that went into RN frigates and one of the nuclear subs.

We could revert to that, makes as much sense as anything else the OP has said in this thread Lol
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#67 - 2013-05-30 12:23:03 UTC
Super spikinator wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade?


It isn't a minority. It is a majority.




Thankfully, it looks like only around 10-15% of Eve players are still running on XP.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2954304#post2954304

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Doc Severide
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-05-30 12:40:54 UTC
ISD Gallifreyan wrote:
Also some people need to run 32bit systems for other programs that are not 64bit compatible.

Those people need to get their priorities right.

But I'd be interested in how many people have multiple PC's some for gaming, some for working, etc.

I myself have 13 PC's, 7 of which are for gaming and nothing else...
Noriko Mai
#69 - 2013-05-30 12:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
Doc Severide wrote:
I myself have 13 PC's, 7 of which are for gaming and nothing else...

WTF???? ShockedShockedShockedShocked I don't even have a smartphone

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#70 - 2013-05-30 13:07:08 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.


Attacking the person instead of their argument is usually a sign you've run out of ways to defend your side of the discussion.


Nope...just stating a fact. Go read Tippia's post history. It speaks volumes on where Tippia stands when it comes to CCP making the game better.



I'm familiar with Tippia's posting history, having been playing the game going on five years now. And you're quite correct when you say that it speaks volumes - he fully supports making changes to better the game, when the benefits of those changes outweigh the costs.

So far you have yet to demonstrate that changing to 64 bit will have a postive outcome that outweighs the costs of implementing it, and you managed to go straight for the ad hominem before we even finished page one of this thread. I understand you want Eve to get a 64-bit client, for whatever reasons you may have. What you have failed to demonstrate is why Eve needs a 64-bit client in an reasonable sense.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-05-30 13:11:04 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.


Attacking the person instead of their argument is usually a sign you've run out of ways to defend your side of the discussion.


Nope...just stating a fact. Go read Tippia's post history. It speaks volumes on where Tippia stands when it comes to CCP making the game better.



I'm familiar with Tippia's posting history, having been playing the game going on five years now. And you're quite correct when you say that it speaks volumes - he fully supports making changes to better the game, when the benefits of those changes outweigh the costs.

So far you have yet to demonstrate that changing to 64 bit will have a postive outcome that outweighs the costs of implementing it, and you managed to go straight for the ad hominem before we even finished page one of this thread. I understand you want Eve to get a 64-bit client, for whatever reasons you may have. What you have failed to demonstrate is why Eve needs a 64-bit client in an reasonable sense.


Considering you don't need a 64bit client for the things he wants.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#72 - 2013-05-30 13:41:46 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's not just operating systems that prevent requiring DX11. Hardware is also a limitation, and for some (e.g. those with laptops) it's not so easy to upgrade the hardware. My laptop had the best card available when I bought it almost four years ago and it isn't DX11 capable.

You can have your nice things like tessellation and DX11 so long as they're made optional. There's no reason to shut out people who can't run DX11 especially considering so very few games actually do that (literally, there's only one game currently on market that requires DX11, everything else requires at most DX10.1).

I have a great deal of sincere sympathy for those in your position James, but you need to consider something that is a general rule of thumb for anyone that's worked in the computer field.

The fully useful lifespan of a computer used for gaming is 3 years.
The fully useful lifespan of a computer not used for gaming is 5 years.

Obviously there are exceptions, but its a pretty good guideline for planning computer purchases and/or upgrades.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Wyrm Drake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-05-30 14:25:51 UTC
Aragoni wrote:
I don't want to be rude or anything but how many of you actually know what you're talking about?

Maybe we can get a CCP-response on if (and if, how so) EVE actually would benefit from going to x64? No need to answer the question about when (once again: If) it arrives.



Uhh, me.

System Administrator
Network Administrator
Database Administrator
Programmer (in over a dozen languages)
Systems Analyst

For over 30 years.

I can't believe this is still a conversation
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#74 - 2013-05-30 14:30:46 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
I have answered her. You just didn't want to accept my answer - just like her. Oh wait...maybe this is one of her alts. LOL!


You just parroted what you heard someone else say out of context. You still have no clue as to why.
Ill take your denial of how computers work in hand with your assumption of alt connections.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

KardelSharpeye
The Watchtower.
#75 - 2013-05-30 14:37:51 UTC
OP you should probably go take a course on how computers work, you're just spewing garbage.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-05-30 14:49:44 UTC
Op has a point. There seems to be a lot of people posting here that have no idea about computers.

Eve would be better if it was for 64 bit computers. If you compare a 32 bit computer with a 64 bit computer, the 64 bit one has more bits. Because you have more bits, you can tell those bits to do extra things. You can do twice as many things at once with a 64 bit computer than you can with a 32 bit one, because 64 is twice as much as 32.

This is basic logic, people.
De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#77 - 2013-05-30 14:54:59 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Op has a point. There seems to be a lot of people posting here that have no idea about computers.

Eve would be better if it was for 64 bit computers. If you compare a 32 bit computer with a 64 bit computer, the 64 bit one has more bits. Because you have more bits, you can tell those bits to do extra things. You can do twice as many things at once with a 64 bit computer than you can with a 32 bit one, because 64 is twice as much as 32.

This is basic logic, people.


notsureifserious.jpg

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Plyn
Uncharted.
#78 - 2013-05-30 15:36:51 UTC
Posting in a thread where people clearly do not understand the concepts behind memory addressing.

Devs have proven cautious about client changes that force hardware updates, and for a game with such a long lifespan this is certainly the best course of action. You'll get what you want, OP, eventually. If you want it now, though, your best hope is to ask for an x64 client in addition to the x86 one, which will probably happen before the game goes exclusively x64 anyways.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#79 - 2013-05-30 16:32:18 UTC
OP is taking this commercial a little too seriously...

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Khira Kitamatsu
#80 - 2013-05-30 16:50:59 UTC
Let me put it this way, other MMO's, ones older than EVE Online offer 64bit versions of the game. That means people that cannot run 64bit can still run 32bit, but those with the ability to run the 64bit can. Look at WoW as an example. Back when the first introduced 64bit I and many millions of other players saw a huge jump in game performance by moving to 64bit client. That is all I am asking for here. Is the ability to fully utilize what my machine is capable of doing. For anyone to say that we would not see improvements in this game is just being silly - especially if CCP wrote the code to optimize the use of a 64bit system.

Then they could release a DX11, tessellation and better physics to those of us that can make use of it. All I wish to see is EVE grow into a more robust and enriching game experience and environment. As it is now CCP is tied to the fact that some people refuse to upgrade their gaming rigs and or OS's. How is that fair to the hundreds of thousands that have decent up-to-date gaming rigs?

Ponies!  We need more ponies!