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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Gallente

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Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#2601 - 2013-05-28 06:08:31 UTC
I'll make a chart to make things simple

1- Is the fight short? If YES go to 5. If NO continue

2- Did you fit cap boosters? If YES go to 5. If NO continue

3- Do you have logi on field to ask for cap? If YES go to 5. If NO continue

4- You'll probably die before you run out of cap.

5- You are not going to have any cap problems.

One more tip: If you are THAT desperate for cap and you are shooting a non-moving target(i.e. carrier) fit one t2 discharge rig and offline your mwd when shooting.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2602 - 2013-05-28 07:59:27 UTC
Asking for cap from logi is a **** way to keep your cap up. Your logi can't keep your entire fleet capped up enough to keep sustained dps. But like I said, this is mainly a problem with the navy mega with the utility high. I'm sure the current mega will be ok unless the fight drags on.
Lugalzagezi666
#2603 - 2013-05-28 08:19:17 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Asking for cap from logi is a **** way to keep your cap up.

I agree, mega and navy mega should have its tracking bonus changed to 10% bonus to large hybrid turret capacitor use per level.
Being able to continually shoot carrier or whatever with void for more than 40 minutes is CRUCIAL for their role. Ccp, please change their bonus.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2604 - 2013-05-28 10:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Josilin du Guesclin
Julius Foederatus wrote:

To put it succinctly, my point is not that I don't want to fit cap boosters, I already do. The point is that I want to be able to fire my bloody guns without having to inject an 800 booster. The cap booster is for countering neuts and being able to run everything else you put on your mega while firing guns.

Let me introduce you to the Rokh - cap stable firing only its blasters or rails. I hope you don't want a tank, though.

Bigg Gun wrote:
Cap recharge should've been calculated on a per shooting gun basis, and type of gun with some base cap recharge for all ships, and type of tanking.

example (with made up figures).
Every BS gets 10 basic recharge(for prop, hardeners etc.)
a mega gets on top of that 7x2.2 or 15.4 cap recharge extra for hybrid gun shooting with ROF bonus or total of 25.4
a hyperion gets 6x2 or 12 cap recharge bonus for it's guns + 10 extra for active repper bonus or total of 32
an apoc gets 8x3 cap bonus for it's guns(lazors getting higher coefficient due to guns using more cap) or 34 cap recharge
a maelstrom gets the 10 bonus for local rep bonus but no cap bonus for guns since proj are capless or a total of 20 cap.
Domi for instance gets no cap boni other than the base 10 since it will have no bonus to shooting guns and no bonus to tanking so domi cap would be 10.
new geddon will get the 10 base + the bonus cap for running neuts....

And so on.

If you follow the formula there would be no need for complicated cap bonuses and no ships running out of cap just by turning on their guns.

Surely a good ship designer would think in advance and not let it's creation to cripple itself just by shooting at enemies and would give the ship as much cap as it needs.

At this point you may as well simply make all guns capless, because they effectively are. Homogenisation at its best.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#2605 - 2013-05-28 11:35:39 UTC
One more thing: 3xMFS Neutron Mega is cap stable with CN Thorium ammo and still outdamages competition.

I think with this balance pass gallente battleships have been boosted substantially to acceptable levels and beyond. For close-med range encounters, they have speed to close the gap and apply their dps. For long range engagements RailMega has become quite competetive and will be seen more often. The 'sniper' role of Domi somewhat contraversial. Quite a niche but clever player groups will find very good uses for them.

Time to get creative with it.
Syreniac
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2606 - 2013-05-28 11:47:31 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Asking for cap from logi is a **** way to keep your cap up. Your logi can't keep your entire fleet capped up enough to keep sustained dps. But like I said, this is mainly a problem with the navy mega with the utility high. I'm sure the current mega will be ok unless the fight drags on.


If you're telling me that your logis can't spare enough cap transfers to manage a 7.7 cap/s deficit (the amount you run at with Void), I think you're flying with literally terrible logis.

I mean, that's one cycle every 136 seconds. One single logi with a spare large energy transfer could theoretically keep 27 megathrons running without capacitor problems, presuming that you don't feel the need to MWD all over the place without using your own cap booster. Even if you're flying with T1 logis and therefore only medium energy transfers, you still only need one cycle every 45 seconds to keep your capacitor stable.

Even if you don't feel like asking your Logis for cap, which in my experience flying logis in fleets of battleships, everyone does, you can get a > 1 hour running time on the new mega with guns running with cheap implants and a synth mindflood boost. Step that up to a standard or stronger mindflood booster, and you're already running cap stable. In fact, a strong mindflood booster is enough to make you cap stable firing antimatter on its own, and its not that expensive to use boosters if you're literally desperate for a capstable blaster platform.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#2607 - 2013-05-28 19:06:49 UTC
On a completely different note: Please re-locate the Hardpoints on the Hyperion Hull - With only 6 Guns and 7 Highs left it would be a great time to make the turrets on the ship stop looking like tumors.

Brilliantly designed ship, and my personal #2 after the redesigned scorpion hulls. but those hardpoints are horrible :(

My Condor costs less than that module!
Syreniac
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2608 - 2013-05-28 19:39:38 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
On a completely different note: Please re-locate the Hardpoints on the Hyperion Hull - With only 6 Guns and 7 Highs left it would be a great time to make the turrets on the ship stop looking like tumors.

Brilliantly designed ship, and my personal #2 after the redesigned scorpion hulls. but those hardpoints are horrible :(


I like the hardpoints, though making it a set of six at each end would be very, very, appreciated. Looking at the model, it doesn't even seem like it would take a massive amount of time to just delete two pairs.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2609 - 2013-05-28 23:37:40 UTC
ExAstra wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:
So is that a no to more cap on the mega to make up for the increased cap drain from the RoF bonus?

Use your new low slot for a cap power relay. Bam, problem solved, moving on.



This is exactly what we can call straps on wood legs.

You get to your Doc and he announces you got cancer, you just answer "it's ok, there's radiotherapy and 2pounds of pills a day, problem solved."

Roll

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2610 - 2013-05-29 13:35:27 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
ExAstra wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:
So is that a no to more cap on the mega to make up for the increased cap drain from the RoF bonus?

Use your new low slot for a cap power relay. Bam, problem solved, moving on.



This is exactly what we can call straps on wood legs.

You get to your Doc and he announces you got cancer, you just answer "it's ok, there's radiotherapy and 2pounds of pills a day, problem solved."

Roll

It's like nobody understands humor anymore.

Save the drones!
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#2611 - 2013-05-30 10:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DeLindsay
Roime wrote:
idk, I've never even considered flying a Mega without a cap booster. Or any other blaster PVP ship without some counter to cap warfare. Cap stability matters only for POS bashing without logis and NPC corp missioners tbh.




Sh*t, the only TRUE way to efficiently run LvL 4 Missions is NOT cap stable (with Cap Booster) and min tank... Strap as many guns to the ship as it'll hold with the best upgrades and get to the carnage. But on a side note, I can't believe that the petty bickering people are going on about now is being cap stable in the Odyssey Mega using Void. WHYUMADBROS??? If you fit your ship(s) for 100% cap stability doing anything BUT bashing POS towers, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. You're wasting module/rig slots instead of fitting things that would help your fleet/gang/self kill faster. If you kill it/them faster, you won't have to worry about cap now will you, derp.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Stjaerna Ramundson
#2612 - 2013-05-30 14:16:45 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
THREAD UPDATED BASED ON FEEDBACK - Have a second look if you haven't since I originally posted.

Dominix:

With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones.


Suggestion:

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 6M (+1), 7L; 4 turrets (-2) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1100s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 525 (+150)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80 km (+10) / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)


Highslots:
A Dominix is a ship with full focus on drones, so turrets are only a secondary effect. (-1 Highslots / -2 Turrets) Base like the Myrmidon.

As a ship that have to work as a long distance fighter (sniper) it is not realy reasonable to have a low max targeting range. (+10)

As a ship that have a full focus on drones and is heavily dependent on drones, it is not reasonable that a ship with a 4 times more bigger volume than a Cruiser to have lower drone bay space. +150

Example:
Gila = 400 m³ drone bay as a cruiser (focus on drones)
Ishtar = 375 m³ drone bay as a cruiser (focus on drones)

both are cruiser and have up to the same or more cargo bay than a BS that have the same focus? That is not reasonable.
(My opinion:
It is like to create a Obelisk with 100000 base cargo or like a air craft carrier they are only can carry up to 10 aircraft's. The relations are out of place in compare to cruisers size ships with focus on drones.
Also the Navy version have the same drone bay than a cruiser.. where is the relation to volumen with drone focus?)
  1. Eigenen Beitrag mit sachliche Argumentationen, Problemschilderung, Erklärung, Lösungsansätzen formulieren.
  2. Beitrag enthält eine eigene Meinung im Fazit zum Thema.
  3. Negative Äußerungen, Drohungen usw. gegenüber Nutzern haben in der Meinung nichts zu suchen.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2613 - 2013-05-30 14:23:26 UTC
Stjaerna Ramundson wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
THREAD UPDATED BASED ON FEEDBACK - Have a second look if you haven't since I originally posted.

Dominix:

With the Dominix we've abandoned the split weapon bonus (hybrids and drones) and moved it to a fully dedicated drone ship by adding a drone optimal and tracking bonus. We hope that this new bonus will provide a very strong Gallente fleet option in the Dominix, via sentry drones.


Suggestion:

Slot layout: 5H(-1), 6M (+1), 7L; 4 turrets (-2) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG(+1000), 600 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1100s / 5.51
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 525 (+150)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80 km (+10) / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength
Signature radius: 465(+45)


Highslots:
A Dominix is a ship with full focus on drones, so turrets are only a secondary effect. (-1 Highslots / -2 Turrets) Base like the Myrmidon.

As a ship that have to work as a long distance fighter (sniper) it is not realy reasonable to have a low max targeting range. (+10)

As a ship that have a full focus on drones and is heavily dependent on drones, it is not reasonable that a ship with a 4 times more bigger volume than a Cruiser to have lower drone bay space. +150

Example:
Gila = 400 m³ drone bay as a cruiser (focus on drones)
Ishtar = 375 m³ drone bay as a cruiser (focus on drones)

both are cruiser and have up to the same or more cargo bay than a BS that have the same focus? That is not reasonable.
(My opinion:
It is like to create a Obelisk with 100000 base cargo or like a air craft carrier they are only can carry up to 10 aircraft's. The relations are out of place in compare to cruisers size ships with focus on drones.
Also the Navy version have the same drone bay than a cruiser.. where is the relation to volumen with drone focus?)


+1
More CPU would help with the drone mods unless they plan on fixing them instead

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2614 - 2013-05-31 13:55:56 UTC
CCP mentions they're not changing the Dominix (yet), and the thread dies.

I guess it's safe to say everyone is pretty satisfied, then?

Save the drones!
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2615 - 2013-05-31 14:11:21 UTC
ExAstra wrote:
CCP mentions they're not changing the Dominix (yet), and the thread dies.

I guess it's safe to say everyone is pretty satisfied, then?


far from it .... but nothing we have said makes a difference so why bother anymore?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

ExAstra
Echoes of Silence
#2616 - 2013-05-31 14:26:27 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
ExAstra wrote:
CCP mentions they're not changing the Dominix (yet), and the thread dies.

I guess it's safe to say everyone is pretty satisfied, then?


far from it .... but nothing we have said makes a difference so why bother anymore?

Are you the guy who wants a 7/5/7 shield Mega? Because I still have no empathy for you on that subject. Haha.

Save the drones!
Temai
The Scope
#2617 - 2013-05-31 14:27:27 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
ExAstra wrote:
CCP mentions they're not changing the Dominix (yet), and the thread dies.

I guess it's safe to say everyone is pretty satisfied, then?


far from it .... but nothing we have said makes a difference so why bother anymore?


This... the enter thing feels like a joke if anything this feels more like a "We Are" than "We Plan" not to mention the idots who cant see passed the Plane face info that some have give (mega in BIG fleet with cap outs/ resupply) with lagitemet consern i dunno it feels like this was mostly pointless after the 2nd update... and everything had be locked in and was happening

meh for me this is one of the first expantions i truly am not to happy about...i preferd the CQ more than this...i dunno time will tell

Mega ( Mega cap drain, Mega cost incress? more money on caps and ammo to keep in a fight for a small damg up..)

Domi (slow boat sniper with destroyable dps and a 1 use pony 2nd buff? that was orginaly the complaint?)

Hyper (******** hardpoints and King of Small Gang?)

meh maby its me but im not looking forward to flying em much... maby the hyper but the hardpoints still look stupid with a 3/3 row and a missile launcher.

- Temai
  • Lost in Space looking for a Home dreaming of building outpost's acrross EVE -
Neggravity Gravity
East Coast Privateers
#2618 - 2013-05-31 21:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Neggravity Gravity
Just don't forget about the people who fly these ships for "Solo" reasons to. Shocked
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2619 - 2013-05-31 22:19:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
TehCloud wrote:
On a completely different note: Please re-locate the Hardpoints on the Hyperion Hull - With only 6 Guns and 7 Highs left it would be a great time to make the turrets on the ship stop looking like tumors.

Brilliantly designed ship, and my personal #2 after the redesigned scorpion hulls. but those hardpoints are horrible :(


I anticipate that somewhere along the line they will be going back and updating every ship to have fresh new models for the change to DX11, Hyperion included since it doesn't currently match the new Gallente paint scheme. The Hyperion will probably see some design changes and with it the hardpoints will be looked at as well.


As for the rest of you.
Regardless of what you want, and whether this change be for the better or the worse, CCP has declared that the Mega is an "Attack" battleship. It's not supposed to be in long, drawn-out brawling fights. Attack Battleships are supposed to get in quick, do what what they came to do and kill the target (or be killed) in reasonably short order. If you want a drawn-out fight, the Combat Battleships are designed more with that in mind.
Neggravity Gravity
East Coast Privateers
#2620 - 2013-05-31 23:36:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Neggravity Gravity
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


CCP has declared that the Mega is an "Attack" battleship. It's not supposed to be in long, drawn-out brawling fights. Attack Battleships are supposed to get in quick, do what what they came to do and kill the target (or be killed) in reasonably short order. If you want a drawn-out fight, the Combat Battleships are designed more with that in mind.


This ^ is the New Ship that I've been training for and saving for these last couple of weeks.
A Battleship to get in, Kick Ass and Get Out!

I thought it was going to be the Hyperion but maybe I've been wrong up until now.