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When will EVE Online get a 64 bit client?

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Khira Kitamatsu
#1 - 2013-05-29 19:33:57 UTC
Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade?

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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2013-05-29 19:37:52 UTC
Because people like their Commodore 64s and with a mass upgrade of equipment on the consumer end, CCP will be forced to upgrade their hamsters from standard pet store brand to atomic mutant hamster/guinea pig hybrids.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#3 - 2013-05-29 19:40:27 UTC
We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers...

...
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#4 - 2013-05-29 19:41:52 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade?


Yell at Microsoft for continuing to make 32 bit operating systems.

I would agree though to change eve to 64 bits.

Yaay!!!!
Khira Kitamatsu
#5 - 2013-05-29 19:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Khira Kitamatsu
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
We're not getting a 64 bit client until they get 64 bit servers...


Ummm...the servers are 64bit. Have been for some time now. In fact I recall they have been since 2008.

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2013-05-29 19:43:12 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade?



And what benefit do you see from changing Eve from 32 bit to 64 bit?


It's not like Eve is using anywhere near the 32 bit limits. Sub 1GB atm.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2013-05-29 19:44:15 UTC
When it becomes possible (depending on third-party middleware) and meaningful (depending on OS spread) and/or useful (depending on benefits vs. costs) to do so.

I.e. probably not in a while.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-05-29 19:54:10 UTC
The important question is what would Eve specifically have to gain from running a 64 bit client as opposed to the 32 bit one? What direct gains to the application could be realized by doing so?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Khira Kitamatsu
#9 - 2013-05-29 20:03:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
When it becomes possible (depending on third-party middleware) and meaningful (depending on OS spread) and/or useful (depending on benefits vs. costs) to do so.

I.e. probably not in a while.


It is possible...it is a minority of players that is holding advancement back. The developers themselves have said repeatedly. Personally I think it is silly the CCP's is letting the hands be tide be a group of players that refuse to upgrade their gaming rigs. I think it is the onus of the players to keep up with the requirements of the game and not the developers to maintain old tech just to appease these hold-outs.

We could have tessellation, DX11 and our systems utilize the memory we have - instead of being hamstrung using archaic 32 bit client. We've seen what this game could look like with tessellation. We've seen what it would look like if the developers could make use of DX11. It would run smoother and not melt our machines CPU's and GPU's because the old game code is so 10 years ago.

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Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-05-29 20:06:26 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Is it really a minority of players that is holding back the advancement of EVE to a 64bit client? How many people still use Win 98 or XP to play EVE Online? We can't have nice things like tessellation, DX11, or utilize more memory until the minority hold-outs upgrade their gaming systems. My question is...when will CCP realize that the rest of the gaming world has moved onto 21st century tech and they are still working with tech from 2001 and their game engine needs a major upgrade? Will the game continue to be held back by the minority of players that are too cheap to upgrade?



And what benefit do you see from changing Eve from 32 bit to 64 bit?


It's not like Eve is using anywhere near the 32 bit limits. Sub 1GB atm.


1) Certain algorithms are much faster when using 64bit registers
2) 64bit mode has many more general purpose registers
3) 64bit mode has a few more SIMD registers
4) 64bit mode removes some legacy cruft and adds some extra niceties for the compiler
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2013-05-29 20:12:59 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
It is possible.
Is it? Could you please list the full set of middleware EVE is using and show that they have fully functional 64bit versions, since that's what's made it impossible so far.

Quote:
it is a minority of players that is holding advancement back. The developers themselves have said repeatedly.
[citation needed]

Quote:
We could have tessellation, DX11 and our systems utilize the memory we have
Tesselation and DX11 are not contingent on 64-bit, and there's no need for more memory.

Barakach wrote:
1) Certain algorithms are much faster when using 64bit registers
2) 64bit mode has many more general purpose registers
3) 64bit mode has a few more SIMD registers
4) 64bit mode removes some legacy cruft and adds some extra niceties for the compiler
…and EVE would benefit from that? Those are just generalities. What would be the benefit for EVE?
Khira Kitamatsu
#12 - 2013-05-29 20:15:57 UTC
In case you haven't seen what EVE Online looks like with DX11 and tessellation(not to mention better in game physics) here is a link to the demo that CCP did in 2012 at Fanfest. EVE Online Demo 2012 Video

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#13 - 2013-05-29 20:19:39 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
In case you haven't seen what EVE Online looks like with DX11 and tessellation(not to mention better in game physics) here is a link to the demo that CCP did in 2012 at Fanfest. EVE Online Demo 2012 Video

…and that has nothing to do with going 64-bit.
Khira Kitamatsu
#14 - 2013-05-29 20:22:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
It is possible.
Is it? Could you please list the full set of middleware EVE is using and show that they have fully functional 64bit versions, since that's what's made it impossible so far.

Quote:
it is a minority of players that is holding advancement back. The developers themselves have said repeatedly.
[citation needed]

Quote:
We could have tessellation, DX11 and our systems utilize the memory we have
Tesselation and DX11 are not contingent on 64-bit, and there's no need for more memory.

Barakach wrote:
1) Certain algorithms are much faster when using 64bit registers
2) 64bit mode has many more general purpose registers
3) 64bit mode has a few more SIMD registers
4) 64bit mode removes some legacy cruft and adds some extra niceties for the compiler
…and EVE would benefit from that? Those are just generalities. What would be the benefit for EVE?


Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.

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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-29 20:29:08 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.


Attacking the person instead of their argument is usually a sign you've run out of ways to defend your side of the discussion.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2013-05-29 20:30:37 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98
No.

Quote:
(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever.
Ah. Making things up rather than actually addressing the points. Good tactic. Lol

Quote:
The game would run better - end of story.
…or it might not run at all because there would be missing components. And no, that's not the end of the story. Simply going 64 bit doesn't automatically make a program run better, and any potential gain that could be had needs to be weighed against the costs of gaining it.

I can only conclude that you are wilfully ignoring those costs, which, combined with your inability to list any reason to pay those costs that doesn't build on some kind of fallacy, means your entire argument has no basis.
Khira Kitamatsu
#17 - 2013-05-29 20:32:00 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever. The game would run better - end of story. Old OS's like Win 98 and XP cannot take advantage of modern, up-to-date graphics cards and CPU's - argue about it all you want - that is fact.


Attacking the person instead of their argument is usually a sign you've run out of ways to defend your side of the discussion.


Nope...just stating a fact. Go read Tippia's post history. It speaks volumes on where Tippia stands when it comes to CCP making the game better.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2013-05-29 20:35:16 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Nope...just stating a fact.
You haven't stated a single fact in this entire thread.

So, let's go back to that basic question and see if you can do it at least once: what benefit do you see from changing EVE from 32 to 64 bit?

Quote:
Go read Tippia's post history. It speaks volumes on where Tippia stands when it comes to CCP making the game better.
Prove it.
Khira Kitamatsu
#19 - 2013-05-29 20:38:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
Tippia - you are one of the people that is probably still running Win 98
No.

Quote:
(if I remember correctly you have said this in previous post that you are still running the game on this). I've seen you argue against CCP making the game better since forever.
Ah. Making things up rather than actually addressing the points. Good tactic. Lol

Quote:
The game would run better - end of story.
…or it might not run at all because there would be missing components. And no, that's not the end of the story. Simply going 64 bit doesn't automatically make a program run better, and any potential gain that could be had needs to be weighed against the costs of gaining it.

I can only conclude that you are wilfully ignoring those costs, which, combined with your inability to list any reason to pay those costs that doesn't build on some kind of fallacy, means your entire argument has no basis.


So you're going to continue to use that lame argument that there is no benefit and EVE would not run better with 64bit client?

Just being able to utilize more memory would benefit the game. You cannot use more than 2GB with a 32bit system. If EVE could make use of more memory it would definitely see a marked improvement in how it runs. Keep trying to deny it.

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Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-05-29 20:40:42 UTC
When you move from 32 bit to 64 bit, yes, your integer math can deal with numbers twice as big. That's a win. There are a few more registers, which is good for compiler optimisation. But think about it: all of your pointers are twice as large, and the average program has plenty of those. Your memory usage goes UP because of it, and so does your cache thrashing.

It's not a win to go native 64 bit, unless you're paging from massive files (over 4Gb) or something.
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