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[Proposal] How to boost tag supply

Author
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#1 - 2011-11-04 06:24:59 UTC
Tags have always been a problem for cashing in LP but have become far more so lately. I don't know the root cause of the current tag shortages but it's clear to me something should be done. So I have a fairly straight forward and obvious solution:

1) Add 15 new missions against each of the 4 factions (60 total missions, yes, I know that's a lot of work) with five of them being lvl3's, five being lvl4's and five being lvl5's (mostly ungated as gated ones are rarely run).

2) Add an option to existing agents that when selected, allows players to run missions against opposing factions exclusively rather than having the usual pirate killing missions mixed in. I would support adding an option to do the opposite as well so players could run anti-pie missions only instead.

3) Adjust some tag drop rates. The republic fleet captain tag for example is one of the rarest tags in game and yet is used for practically everything.

4) No item or BPC should require 400 tags, I don't care if they do cost 5k isk each. A hard limit of 100 tags should be applied, any item/bpc that requires more than that should be adjusted.

Alternatively the tag requirements could be deleted and add isk requirements instead but I think the current tag system is better tbh. It just needs some adjustment.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Autonomous Monster
Paradox Interstellar
#2 - 2011-11-04 11:19:29 UTC
I'm not sure this would help your problem (though, I'm not sure your problem is an actual problem that requires addressing). It's generally advised that missioners simply turn down faction missions because they eviscerate your standings. Anyone who is doing them is doing them because they think the additional payout from tags is worth the standings loss; if prices fall, people will stop doing them, supply will drop and then prices will rise again.

Increasing the drop rate per boat might help; it'd let sellers make the same isk/hour while increasing volume.

Tricky, though.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#3 - 2011-11-04 15:19:24 UTC
Here's the issue as I see it. No matter what happens, the balance of standing hit vs extra ISK is always what's going to determine the tag market. If there are more tags dropped, they will increase supply for a short time, but then as tag prices fall, fewer people will find it worthwhile to run the sites, supply will drop and price will rise again, and it'll be back in the exact same spot as it is right now. The reason that it is worthwhile for some people is the extra money they make from it, if the tags go down in value, the extra money will go down and fewer people will do them.

The only way I can see to permanently increase tag supply and lower their costs would be to reduce standings hits in the missions that drop tags. If there's less standing penalty, more people will run them and they won't need to make as much ISK off the tags to feel that it's worth the standings hit, thus driving down tag prices.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#4 - 2011-11-04 15:27:40 UTC
Which tags are under supplied?
Amanda R
Drifting Falling
#5 - 2011-11-04 16:26:28 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Which tags are under supplied?

I don't think you understand. "Under supplied" means "not available at the price I want to buy them for."
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#6 - 2011-11-05 07:34:33 UTC
Sigh, these forums really **** me off. Spend 10 minutes writing up a nice response only for it to get deleted and never posted. Here it goes again.

Why do we need more tags? I have solid proof and didn't think I had to give it but apparently I do. When was the last time you saw an imperial navy adaptive nano (not the energized)? My guess is never. They are superior to t2 and have no disadvantages compared to t2 other than cost. But here's the problem. They cost 20M+ isk to produce in tags (0 isk/LP) and are inferior to c-types which cost 10-15M isk. Obviously no one buys them except as collector items.

But that is with current market tag prices, now take a look at what the NPC buy order prices of those tags are. Suddenly that item would only cost about 5M isk to make. If tag prices reflected CCP's intention for them, IN adaptive nano's would be a good item to make and I suspect farely popular. But since those tags are worth upwards of 40x as much as CCP planned, they aren't.

You want to know what tag is worth 40x as much? One of them is the republic fleet captain tag. NPC buy order price is ~50k isk, current player prices are around 2M isk. That huge discrepancy alone makes many of the amarr LP store items impossible to sell at a profit since deadspace and pirate faction drops of equal or superior stats are in fact cheaper. I'm not interested in increasing tag supply to improve my isk/LP rate on popular items, it's to make the other 90%+ of the LP market stuff actually worth making.

As for people rejecting the missions goes, I think it's hard to predict what people will do. Back when I was a high sec carebear, I never rejected missions against opposing factions. I didn't know anyone who did either. I've played FW on both sides of the minmatar/amarr front and guess what, I still don't care about killing the opposing navies. In truth the only people who seem to care about the enemy's faction standings are missioners who post on this forum. I don't think I've chatted with a single player in game who rejected such missions. So I can see it going either way.

In any case, I included the options to both get anti-empire faction missions only or anti-pirate faction missions only (or the current mix). It should make everyone happy. Will it increase tag supply overall? I think so but even if it doesn't, it gives the option for people like me to generate our own tags easier. Perhaps even with a surplus to sell to the others like ya'll.

I don't think there is anything to oppose here really. I'm proposing the addition of a few new missions at various levels and the ability to select whether or not you want to fight opposing navies. I think that doing so will bring tag prices down to where CCP intended for them to be but even if it doesn't, are you really against any of this?What?

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Amanda R
Drifting Falling
#7 - 2011-11-05 08:04:28 UTC
The fundamental problem with your approach is that you're misunderstanding the point of NPC buy orders. They're not supposed to represent a cap on tag prices or to indicate what tags "should" sell for, they're there to ensure that anti-faction missions always provide at least some baseline ISK reward. The rest is left for the market to decide, same as with most any other item in the game.

And as it happens, I don't think IN ANPs would sell all that well at 5m even if the tags were available at NPC buy prices. Dark Blood and True Sansha ANPs have the same stats and are available at around that price, but I can't remember the last time I saw one on a lossmail. The real issue is that if you're going to go for a fancy ANP, you can pick up C-types for only a little more ISK (in absolute terms), and they're much more attractive.
Aineko Macx
#8 - 2011-11-05 08:18:14 UTC
I don't support the general increase of tag availability. The supply of most tags is just fine. Just some of the more rare ones could be tweaked.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#9 - 2011-11-05 19:54:14 UTC
King Rothgar wrote:
Tags have always been a problem for cashing in LP


I have never had an issue with tags when I'm cashing in my LP. You may be doing something wrong.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword