EVE General Discussion

You've already been told that the problem is the massive imbalance between hisec and 0.0 industry, not the easy logistics that exposed that imbalance.

You've already had your absurd assertion that removing logistics would magically make 0.0 industry worthwhile taken apart. It won't. Logistics aren't the problem. You're like the guy who when he hears about a natural disaster on TV, "solves" the problem by switching the TV off.

@Malcanis

Living in your dreamworld yes? Stop trolling on important subjects maybe and i will take you seriously.

It has become MORE then clear in this thread that its a COMBINATION of factors influencing industry in 0.0. Your attempts to make your points (half of them trolled) look more valid is not really working.

Of course 0.0 stations have to be upped, and they are right now (not enough, but its a start). Logistics will be something to be reivsed too, as easy as that.

But hey, go on living in your black/white world, good luck with that. Poor CSM though, if you argue like you do here during CSM sessions....but maybe in person you wouldnt troll that much hm?



Really beeing patient here, but what makes you think that this discussion revolves around your personal EGO of living in Venal? I don't really care. I don't even care if you think i know or don't anything about EvE, if i would have wanted to i would have posted with my MAIN no?

Its not about EGOs....try looking past that and coming back to interesting disussions.

Stop feeding the troll peeps

Try listening to people WHO LIVED IN THE TIMES YOU SPEAK OF AND KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

Its nothing at all to do with ego, I am simply saying what used to happen and why your idea would hurt this game.

This a million times over. Any idea with simple, quick or easy in it is already a failure. It's the primary reason I believe in a 'leave it the frack alone' position normally.




(original post edited to remove a single idea but the main concept remains intact)

I wouldn't look at the whole subject of "0.0 Logistics" as narrowly as you are.

Logistics to anywhere encompasses so many reasons, from the mundane as personal to the alliance or coalition levels.

Malcanis isn't trolling, although I think he might be a bit exasperated. He's right, however, that in the past including right now 0.0 industry is just not provisioned to support the requirements of the larger corps and entities which live there. You can have all the toons mining all the minerals you could ever need locally, however you will still be bottlenecked in your product output by a very finite number of slots. It's enough of a bottleneck to dissuade serious use of these slots. The only other way around this is to sink more towers with assembly arrays, and with that comes a real, recurring monetary cost. It is indeed cheaper at that point to freight your needs in. So, yes, he is indeed correct when he points out that the proliferation of JF use is the symptom of a deeper problem, and not the cause of it.

In the end, however, it comes down to cost. Maybe it turns more manufacturing slots wouldn't be the answer everyone seeks. Even if I had all the slots in the world available to me, there's still a cost with getting the minerals needed to plug into them... it just might be the case that it would still be cheaper, in terms of both time and ISK, to continue to buy these items on the market in empire and ship them out. Time is too important to overlook here, and there are tangible costs of sorts associated with it, in RL and in-game.

I can say, as a person who has cracked open the hulls of many 0.0 alliance members' JFs and freighters, that for the most part they are hauling on the personal or corp level. Some bloke shipping his week's worth of anomaly loot to Jita, or shipping out a few doctrine ships+fittings so he can have something for the next fleet ping. Now and then we'll peg someone hauling what seems to be his own stuff mixed with a few courier contracts from corpmates destined for Jita 4-4. Whatever the case, major hauling for the alliance level is generally done by a dedicated few groups and in en-masse, bursty sessions.

As an aside, remember one instance where we intercepted a freighter completely packed (and I mean level 5 freighter skills packed) with 425mm railguns. He jumped it from highsec to lowsec in order to get it to a station where he could then divvy it up amongst some JFs and jump it all out to 0.0. Best 28B I ever made, and this was before the drone poo nerf. I kinda get misty-eyed when I think about how much that drop would be worth today. So yeah, there's one good reason for me to keep minerals flowing in the direction of 0.0 from empire ;)

I do know who I am talking to.

I am talking to someone who has no idea about the games history and thinks screwing over small alliances is a good thing.

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@Tarsas

I agree with you an the problems of 0.0 industry, of course, why on earth would we ship all the stuff in freighter convois previously no? ;) It always was a problem, but it generated NEW content at least, convoys to attack. Thats basically gone.

The thing is, if thats how it is (and it always was), at least we had a chance to disrupt that practice before everything "jump" became way to common, more common then EVER intended by CCP (you know, when they thought Titans would stay rare?).

I think JFs are a solution for a percieved problem back when Titans got used for bridging convoys. Only a few big blocks had Titans back then, so the necessity arose to make it easier for everyone else as there was a REAL fear that one entity could dominate through "capital ship superiority".

Now, we know how that turned out, everything "jump" is just common and no problem anymore. Maybe its time to revisit the solution to a problem that no longer exists? (see tread title).

P.S.
i disagree on mal. trolling however, just look at page 1 of the tread, the first 2 of his 3 responses where trolls. I know its best practise on a forum, but i played nice for long enough, the moment he tries to put words in my mouth i didnt say its time to ignore him.

@Tippia

then we will have to agree to disagree.

You can improve 0.0 industry, sure, and its the right thing to do. But if logistics come with basically 0 cost (including risk as cost factor) 0.0 will still have to compete with highsec production.

Now, you can rewrite the system to make 0.0 production way better then highsec production to compensate for the risk of storing material, bpo/bpcs and stuff in 0.0, OR/AND you can add cost to logistics again so that highsec prices for goods get additional logistics costs to compete with 0.0 production.

But hey, i'm not here to convert you, but as you notice i see easy logistics differently then you, for me it is a vailabe factor (and it would have PvP benefits).