EVE General Discussion

Thats the other "the sky is falling" argument. No, small corps don't need JFs, thank you very much. When i can support 50ppl with 1 carrier and 1 rorqual something is wrong in the equation (i have done it, have you?).

Small corps don't need to do large freighter runs, they just don't. They use other ships, smaller ships, faster ships, cloaky stuff. There are ways to do it right now, it just got too easy so now everyone seems to think to be entitled to do it "the easy way...because".

And if they don't want to, they buy from larger entities where they live. And no, small corps will NEVER challange the large alliance, with or without a JF's.

They didn't back in 2003/4/5, and they don't today. We have tried both ways, thats not whats stopping small corps from taking over. Get over it.

Agree with the OP but I don't expect things to change unfortunately.

The most important thing in eve is player-player interactions and the more ways we have of avoiding other players and danger when we don't want it - jump drives, jump bridges etc, the more boring and stale the game becomes. Back in the day, before jump drives, jump bridges and the proliferation of every other ship running a warp when cloaked setup, 0.0 pipelines were alive with activity and danger. Now we simply bypass travelling through much of 0.0 and we can see the effect, vast dead areas of 0.0.

I lived in 0.0 back in the day before these changes and yes freight ops were long but it meant that you had to work for your patch in 0.0 and added far more to the game. We had wars over pipelines, we sent out regular pvp gangs to escort and clear the way for other members and we targeted our enemies supply routes. It wasn't just alliances that it generated content for - pirates, mercenaries and determined individuals could all have an impact on the 0.0 landscape. It made 0.0 a far more interesting and dangerous place.

Things wont go back to the way they are because people have got used to easy mode and risk aversion and they cry that 0.0 will be broken, that they can't survive without their carebear tools. We survived just fine before and the game was better without jump bridges etc but people are lazy now.

The other thing of course is you get some people in npc null who actually seed the local market on a regular basis, bringing at least some life to the market.

I think its important people think of npc null and sov null as two distinct regions of the game (like high/low).

Sov null IME is dead unless you are the sov holder. Even then its pretty goddamn dead. The market is a farce due to blues - no price-gouging/cutting agreements are common, so its a cartel and not a market. That doesn't appeal to traders. The only industry is supercap/titan production IME.

NPC null can have a reasonably thriving market - depends largely on the corps there - or it can be as bad as sov null. One thing for sure, any npc null markets will be utterly dead were JFs nerfed.

Oh and just for the record, no I don't seed npc null markets as I can make orders of magnitude more with less effort in high-sec. I respect the people who do make the effort though.

Of course there isn't. The risk in hauling back and forth has been completely taken out and one of the most awesome parts of the early game has been destroyed.

Don't get your hopes up on "fixing" nullsec manufacturing. You can't built on a bad foundation.

Apparently because 0.0ers are lazy, morally deficient and make "bad choices".

Or so I've been unironically told.

Outposts are getting a buff in Odyssey; they're being improved from "insultingly terrible" to "rather inadequate, can be upgraded to substandard if you invest a couple of hundred billion ISK in upgrades".

That still doesn't address the huge production overhead gap between hi-sec and 0.0. It just means that an alliance can theoretically make 20% of what it needs instead of only 5%, if it's prepared to invest hundreds of billions of ISK into capturable stations.

What's so dreadful about suicide ganking?

None.

A POS fix will have the effect of moving nullsec industry out of highsec stations and into highsec POSes. The fundamental issue with nullsec industry is the disparity between outposts and NPC stations, where the former have no advantages and the latter have tons of them (and that's just looking at the industry platforms themselves, not the massive additional imbalance that comes from the NPC stations being situated in highsec).

SLOPS is a corp of 4. We need a JF, because nothing else can supply us in the quantity we need.

He doesn't. He's just saying that the only way to make supply interception a more common occurrence is to break the lock highsec has on industry. Ether that, or make it far easier to kill people in highsec…

Ok, fine. "and". I'm talking about a minimalist approach. More than the absolute minimum would obviously yield better results.

I've just spent 3 pages discussing why i think the current situation is far from ideal. Dishonest claims that JFs are "invulnerable" don't advance the discussion at all though.

delete. forum went rogue on me.