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Odssey Sensor Overlay from a Wormholer's Use

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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-05-28 14:15:16 UTC
Nitrah wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
So...if there's a way, without a DSP or a probe launcher, to see new sigs opening up, this will kill all wormhole gankings.


As it is now, all it takes is the foresight to drop a probe and do sigwatch. With the new system, I would be willing to bet it is easier because people will be complacent.

Sure, the new Sig shows up on the screen, but you

A) have to be actively swinging your camera around in all directions, including up and down
B) memorize where the existing signatures are (is that signature 15 degrees above planet 6 new, or was it there before... There are 20 sigs and I can't remember)

You are not able to ignore a signature from the space view. When I'm making money, my probes are going to be out just like they were before.

If anything, it'll provide more motivation for people to keep their systems clean, which will speed up scouting a chain.


All based on old information.

I just hopped in SiSi last night. The results of the overlay scanner now shows up in the scanner window exactly like if you had scanned with a probe.

You absolutely can now, take those results and ignore, then wait for something new to spawn and it WILL show up in the list.

It is WH easy mode now. The results are sorted by sig strength. So the results are akin to a DSP without having to adjust for your skills. It took all of 30 seconds to understand all of the relevant bands in WH space.

The only bonus IMO is that it is now so easy to be able to scan that people will be roaming WH space more than they used to.
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#22 - 2013-05-28 14:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nitrah
Well, you still have to be aware, and you weren't going to get the jump on an aware target before, either. Tossing down a core probe and pushing a button doesn't exactly take any sort of skill.

When it comes to ganking people in w-space, if they haven't seen me come in, I always bet on stupid.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-05-28 14:37:30 UTC
Nitrah wrote:
Well, you still have to be aware, and you weren't going to get the jump on an aware target before, either. Tossing down a core probe and pushing a button doesn't exactly take any sort of skill.

When it comes to ganking people in w-space, if they haven't seen me come in, I always bet on stupid.


Not saying that this isn't true. I was just pointing out that your explanation of the discovery scanner is out of date and no longer accurate.
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-05-28 15:59:04 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Nitrah wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
So...if there's a way, without a DSP or a probe launcher, to see new sigs opening up, this will kill all wormhole gankings.


As it is now, all it takes is the foresight to drop a probe and do sigwatch. With the new system, I would be willing to bet it is easier because people will be complacent.

Sure, the new Sig shows up on the screen, but you

A) have to be actively swinging your camera around in all directions, including up and down
B) memorize where the existing signatures are (is that signature 15 degrees above planet 6 new, or was it there before... There are 20 sigs and I can't remember)

You are not able to ignore a signature from the space view. When I'm making money, my probes are going to be out just like they were before.

If anything, it'll provide more motivation for people to keep their systems clean, which will speed up scouting a chain.


All based on old information.

I just hopped in SiSi last night. The results of the overlay scanner now shows up in the scanner window exactly like if you had scanned with a probe.

You absolutely can now, take those results and ignore, then wait for something new to spawn and it WILL show up in the list.

It is WH easy mode now. The results are sorted by sig strength. So the results are akin to a DSP without having to adjust for your skills. It took all of 30 seconds to understand all of the relevant bands in WH space.

The only bonus IMO is that it is now so easy to be able to scan that people will be roaming WH space more than they used to.


This was my fear and the reason I started this post.

You're taking out player interaction (constantly spamming the probe to make sure nothing is happening) to an automated system that checks for new signatures FOR you with no module required to be fitted (unless that overlay REQUIRES a probe launcher to be fitted, which I seriously doubt). And now, as people are saying, they do show up in the list. It's going to be much harder to gank, but I'm sure there's plenty of people will rat with K162s still open.

Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Amuse
Crimson Research
#25 - 2013-05-28 16:17:45 UTC
It is going to be WAY to easy to make an automated warning system for any dedicated wormhole farmers.

Have a client doing nothing but look for new signatures. It just has to monitor the region of the screen where the new singature will show up (in the signatures list), and as soon as one does, it will read a a change, and can trigger anything from a screen flash to a warning sound. Undetecable, since it does not interact with the client, it just looks for changes in that specific area of your screen.

Easy as all hell for anyone with experience to program, undetectable and instant warning system.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-05-28 16:26:03 UTC
So a couple of other things.

First I was just reading and it looks like they will be pulling signal Strength out of the overlay scanner. So all Sigs will initially show 0% without any probes. Not a huge deal but it does kill the overlay as DSP replacement mechanic.

And yes it may cause some aspects to be easier. In some ways though it may also feed complacency as many automated systems sometimes do.

On the flip side, the overlay gives such fast intel, good hunters may get a bit of help there. Now when you jump through a wormhole, your results list is filled with every anom and sig in the system, even before you finish loading grid. This is way faster than the current hit system scanner button (which only worked out to 64AU, takes 10 seconds, and only shows anoms). In fact the system scanner button doesn't even work anymore without probes out. So a fast hunter can have its pretty dscanned and in warp faster than it used to take to just do an initial system scan.

Overall, the jury is still out IMO on what kind of effect this will actually have. Overall I think the added speed of intel gathering and faster scanning may benefit the hunter just as much as the prey as they will be able to roam around WH space that much faster than before.
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#27 - 2013-05-28 19:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Durzel
Miners will become an endangered species because grav sites will be anoms, not signatures.

Mostly I think the status quo will be maintained. I've yet to hear of anyone actually verifying that new sigs appear in the list immediately or not, it seems most people are assuming they will and extrapolating the typically disproportionate level of rage and entitlement from it.

If incoming K162s appear on the next sweep then maybe it'll be an issue, but frankly anyone who had any sense of self preservation has someone watching for new sigs with probes anyway so not much will change there.

Anyone not taking precautions will still be mostly just as vulnerable as they are now.
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-05-29 00:11:41 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
So a couple of other things.

First I was just reading and it looks like they will be pulling signal Strength out of the overlay scanner. So all Sigs will initially show 0% without any probes. Not a huge deal but it does kill the overlay as DSP replacement mechanic.

And yes it may cause some aspects to be easier. In some ways though it may also feed complacency as many automated systems sometimes do.

On the flip side, the overlay gives such fast intel, good hunters may get a bit of help there. Now when you jump through a wormhole, your results list is filled with every anom and sig in the system, even before you finish loading grid. This is way faster than the current hit system scanner button (which only worked out to 64AU, takes 10 seconds, and only shows anoms). In fact the system scanner button doesn't even work anymore without probes out. So a fast hunter can have its pretty dscanned and in warp faster than it used to take to just do an initial system scan.

Overall, the jury is still out IMO on what kind of effect this will actually have. Overall I think the added speed of intel gathering and faster scanning may benefit the hunter just as much as the prey as they will be able to roam around WH space that much faster than before.


They should just put in a 30 minute delay for new signatures and anomalies from showing up in system.
Rengerel en Distel
#29 - 2013-05-29 00:34:01 UTC
Durzel wrote:
Miners will become an endangered species because grav sites will be anoms, not signatures.

Mostly I think the status quo will be maintained. I've yet to hear of anyone actually verifying that new sigs appear in the list immediately or not, it seems most people are assuming they will and extrapolating the typically disproportionate level of rage and entitlement from it.

If incoming K162s appear on the next sweep then maybe it'll be an issue, but frankly anyone who had any sense of self preservation has someone watching for new sigs with probes anyway so not much will change there.

Anyone not taking precautions will still be mostly just as vulnerable as they are now.


I tested it a couple of updates ago, and the list was not populated automatically. The new sig didn't show up in space for 30 seconds, and didn't show up in the list at all until you changed your filter to something else and back. Have yet to get a response from CCP if that's the intended behavior or not.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-05-29 02:47:37 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Durzel wrote:
Miners will become an endangered species because grav sites will be anoms, not signatures.

Mostly I think the status quo will be maintained. I've yet to hear of anyone actually verifying that new sigs appear in the list immediately or not, it seems most people are assuming they will and extrapolating the typically disproportionate level of rage and entitlement from it.

If incoming K162s appear on the next sweep then maybe it'll be an issue, but frankly anyone who had any sense of self preservation has someone watching for new sigs with probes anyway so not much will change there.

Anyone not taking precautions will still be mostly just as vulnerable as they are now.


I tested it a couple of updates ago, and the list was not populated automatically. The new sig didn't show up in space for 30 seconds, and didn't show up in the list at all until you changed your filter to something else and back. Have yet to get a response from CCP if that's the intended behavior or not.



Actually I think it takes about 30 seconds normally for a signature to respawn. We roll our statics and have someone with probes out as the hole closes and there is a short delay inbetween the collapse of our static and the respawning of the other.
RatKnight1
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2013-05-29 10:33:15 UTC
Idk how i feel about this. Typically i assume my sacrifices to bob will keep everything happy, however when I was on a few updates ago the new scanning system was just making me angry tbh.

I do like the new effects though, and i really want some kind of animation for going through wormholes.

Andy
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#32 - 2013-05-29 11:59:56 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Any further feedback about overlay or probing changes would be greatly appreciated. I don't have the ability to get on SISI for next few weeks.


Judging from the screen shots, the colour coded results are colourblind player unfriendly. The tint of green they used for good result and the tint of yellow (or whatever) they used for a mediocre result are utterly identical to a colourblind person.

In fact, I could only confirm that there WERE, indeed, 2 different colours by asking my wife.

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-05-29 12:17:14 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Any further feedback about overlay or probing changes would be greatly appreciated. I don't have the ability to get on SISI for next few weeks.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=241175

I should buy an Ishtar.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-05-29 12:26:07 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Any further feedback about overlay or probing changes would be greatly appreciated. I don't have the ability to get on SISI for next few weeks.


Judging from the screen shots, the colour coded results are colourblind player unfriendly. The tint of green they used for good result and the tint of yellow (or whatever) they used for a mediocre result are utterly identical to a colourblind person.

In fact, I could only confirm that there WERE, indeed, 2 different colours by asking my wife.




CCP has a wonderful history of saying FU colorblind people.
Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#35 - 2013-05-29 12:46:47 UTC
I'm not sure I see the problem. Why not just use the % listed?
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#36 - 2013-05-29 14:02:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
Derath Ellecon wrote:


CCP has a wonderful history of saying FU colorblind people.


I know, but I've recently managed to get some CSM interest in addressing it so aside from the fact that this issue is real and the feedback was sincere, I'm hoping that posting here will get this particular CSM member's attention too. The more people on the CSM who believe this needs to be addressed, the better.

If you voted in the CSM elections and you believe that colour blind people are people too then make sure the person you voted for is made aware of this issue. This thread also has some examples of colour based interface elements that need addressing : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=234293&find=unread
Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-05-31 00:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexar Mundi
I have yet to hop on the test server in the past few days, but my friend said they have now nerfed the scan skills to make you use the scanning mods to get your original scanning abilities back.

The scan skills now have a stacking penalty on the skill itself... this is the dumbest thing i have ever seen. I would rather say good bye to the useless mods then take a stacking penalty on my scan skills along with using up my med slots.

~edit~
(Has been disproved)
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