These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Concrete in our sandbox - A feedback thread.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#41 - 2013-05-29 00:37:28 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I have spent 10 years playing EVE on "hard mode' and if CCP wants to make improvements to simplify the mundane and irritatingly complex crap in the game such as scanning, I am all for it. There is nothing being done that changes the game or makes the game so easy that it will harm anything or anybody. EVE's biggest problem is the hurdle of difficulty a new player has to climb over just to keep going. Fixing that isn't going to kill EVE at all...ever...it helps EVE grow.


+1 ever try to explain triangulation to someone who puts the rectangular quilt in the rectangular cover cross ways?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-05-29 02:16:02 UTC
There's no concrete in the sandbox, just kitty shite.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#43 - 2013-05-29 02:36:34 UTC
Castor II wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
A good sandbox is one where the game 's challenges are derived from other players not the game interface.


Exactly. You guys are mistaking tedium for challenge.

When I hop through a wormhole in my Helios, I first uncloak, pop a probe to scan the sig for the wh I came through, then move off and drop a few more probes while I warp to a planet to set a safe, go to the safe, pop the rest of my probes and begin scanning after I cloak. If I get caught at any point, or chased, I then have to recall all my probes before jumping back through the wh or I lose them. I might even get caught in another wh without probes and get screwed.

Some may do it another way. That's the great thing about EVE. There are many ways to do the same thing.

But in the new system it's hop through, hit button to deploy all probes, cloak up. Someone comes after you, you hop back through the wh, auto return probes and go on your merry way. All the same.

So tell me, which system is more of a challenge? Which one is keeping with the spirit of EVE?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#44 - 2013-05-29 04:54:41 UTC
I too will miss the days of creativity in probing when I could set my probes up in a pattern shaped like a giant **** and get exactly shitall for useful results. But it was art.

OBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-05-29 04:57:00 UTC
Side note, I'm also upset that my future spaceship will soon have more automation than a 1987 ford taurus. CCP stop dumbing down the game!
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#46 - 2013-05-29 06:47:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
As for "agreeing" with the OP, I have no horse in this race.


Except that being nullsec oriented, you find the idea of w-space mining becoming suicidally dangerous to be not upsetting.

You are right about a good game being about interactions with players rather than fighting a bad UI. Odyssey breaks the player interaction on several levels: no longer will players get stranded in w-space and need to coordinate with a rescue party or local residents to escape. No longer will probes be lost due to forgetful players, thus reducing the market interaction between consumer and supplier.

Odyssey breaks the interaction between hunter and hunted: no longer will deploying 7 probes keep your covert ops ship visible in space for at least 9 seconds: the opportunity for prey to smell the hunt is closed. When prey don't feel safe they will cease entering the dangerous areas. So Odyssey is another hindrance to players entering lowsec.

Odyssey breaks interactions between service providers and service users: no longer is there a role for an explorer in a mining corporation.

Odyssey is self defeating: an expansion based on discovery removes a significant piece of discovery content. Just because you don't find mining worthwhile doesn't mean that nobody find mining worthwhile.

Odyssey breaks hacking by turning it into a twitch game posing as a very challenging UI.

Can you provide your opinion on how Odyssey meets your criteria of providing meaningful interaction rather than a challenging UI?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#47 - 2013-05-29 06:54:33 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Or you can take a different perspective. If things are made more accessible with an ever growing population, the competition for resources will eventually force people where?


Odyssey is clearly a nullsec buff disguised as an exploration expansion (in which exploration content is removed rather than added).

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mag's
Azn Empire
#48 - 2013-05-29 07:07:42 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
As for "agreeing" with the OP, I have no horse in this race.


Except that being nullsec oriented, you find the idea of w-space mining becoming suicidally dangerous to be not upsetting.

You are right about a good game being about interactions with players rather than fighting a bad UI. Odyssey breaks the player interaction on several levels: no longer will players get stranded in w-space and need to coordinate with a rescue party or local residents to escape. No longer will probes be lost due to forgetful players, thus reducing the market interaction between consumer and supplier.

Odyssey breaks the interaction between hunter and hunted: no longer will deploying 7 probes keep your covert ops ship visible in space for at least 9 seconds: the opportunity for prey to smell the hunt is closed. When prey don't feel safe they will cease entering the dangerous areas. So Odyssey is another hindrance to players entering lowsec.

Odyssey breaks interactions between service providers and service users: no longer is there a role for an explorer in a mining corporation.

Odyssey is self defeating: an expansion based on discovery removes a significant piece of discovery content. Just because you don't find mining worthwhile doesn't mean that nobody find mining worthwhile.

Odyssey breaks hacking by turning it into a twitch game posing as a very challenging UI.

Can you provide your opinion on how Odyssey meets your criteria of providing meaningful interaction rather than a challenging UI?
I didn't know this. It's rather sad if true. Cry

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Domer Pyle
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-05-29 07:55:07 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
was looking at the NVidia forums because of the recent driver bug and saw the NVidia forum mod calling eve a "fringe game" .. this after they had an NVidia guy come to last year's fanfest to talk about tessellation. Im pretty sure they are trying to fix the sandbox so the fringe game impression goes away instead of pouring concrete like you said.


eve is a fringe game. this is a fact. not necessarily a bad thing, mind you. PS1 was also a fringe game. things in eve need to change. especially probing. it's way too tedious in its current form.

"Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in." - Ior Labron
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#50 - 2013-05-29 09:17:21 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:


Odyssey breaks hacking by turning it into a twitch game posing as a very challenging UI.?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hacking used to be Activate Module, watch timer? Perhaps I missed a challenging subtlety?

Mara Rinn wrote:
Can you provide your opinion on how Odyssey meets your criteria of providing meaningful interaction rather than a challenging UI?


For one thing it strongly encourages co-operative play.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-05-29 09:37:45 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:


Odyssey breaks the interaction between hunter and hunted: no longer will deploying 7 probes keep your covert ops ship visible in space for at least 9 seconds: the opportunity for prey to smell the hunt is closed. When prey don't feel safe they will cease entering the dangerous areas. So Odyssey is another hindrance to players entering lowsec.


Once again your badposting and disconnect from reality amazes me (pretty sure you can still scan for probes themselves and if you weren't doing that you deserve to get that recon drop on your face and then UNLEASH THE BOMBERS)
Raven Solaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-05-29 10:12:29 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:


Odyssey breaks hacking by turning it into a twitch game posing as a very challenging UI.?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hacking used to be Activate Module, watch timer? Perhaps I missed a challenging subtlety?

Mara Rinn wrote:
Can you provide your opinion on how Odyssey meets your criteria of providing meaningful interaction rather than a challenging UI?


For one thing it strongly encourages co-operative play.


Cooperative play completely devoid of fun, where your friends wait around for you to scan sites down, wait around for you to hack, then gets to click like a maniac for 10 seconds.

I'll ask my friends along, and they'll probably do it, but they won't enjoy it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#53 - 2013-05-29 10:37:52 UTC
Raven Solaris wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:


Odyssey breaks hacking by turning it into a twitch game posing as a very challenging UI.?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hacking used to be Activate Module, watch timer? Perhaps I missed a challenging subtlety?

Mara Rinn wrote:
Can you provide your opinion on how Odyssey meets your criteria of providing meaningful interaction rather than a challenging UI?


For one thing it strongly encourages co-operative play.


Cooperative play completely devoid of fun, where your friends wait around for you to scan sites down, wait around for you to hack, then gets to click like a maniac for 10 seconds.

I'll ask my friends along, and they'll probably do it, but they won't enjoy it.


Sounds like you're adapting already.

What was the fun part that got removed?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Arcelian
0nus
#54 - 2013-05-29 10:41:54 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
As for "agreeing" with the OP, I have no horse in this race.


Except that being nullsec oriented, you find the idea of w-space mining becoming suicidally dangerous to be not upsetting.

You are right about a good game being about interactions with players rather than fighting a bad UI. Odyssey breaks the player interaction on several levels: no longer will players get stranded in w-space and need to coordinate with a rescue party or local residents to escape. No longer will probes be lost due to forgetful players, thus reducing the market interaction between consumer and supplier.

Odyssey breaks the interaction between hunter and hunted: no longer will deploying 7 probes keep your covert ops ship visible in space for at least 9 seconds: the opportunity for prey to smell the hunt is closed. When prey don't feel safe they will cease entering the dangerous areas. So Odyssey is another hindrance to players entering lowsec.

Odyssey breaks interactions between service providers and service users: no longer is there a role for an explorer in a mining corporation.

Odyssey is self defeating: an expansion based on discovery removes a significant piece of discovery content. Just because you don't find mining worthwhile doesn't mean that nobody find mining worthwhile.

Odyssey breaks hacking by turning it into a twitch game posing as a very challenging UI.

Can you provide your opinion on how Odyssey meets your criteria of providing meaningful interaction rather than a challenging UI?


How is that? If the wormhole closes behind you, and you have no probes, you're still pretty well boned unless I'm misunderstanding something. AFAIK the scanner might tell you where a wormhole exit is, but not give you enough of a signal strength to warp to it.

I mean, scanning out hidden belts..explorer...I don't think I've met a single person who was like, "Downtime just happened, F$%K YEA I get to scan down some belts!", it was more like whoever wanted to mine first had to be the one to do it. It's one of those tertiary tasks, not a whole lot of fun.
Raven Solaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-05-29 10:59:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Raven Solaris wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:


Odyssey breaks hacking by turning it into a twitch game posing as a very challenging UI.?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hacking used to be Activate Module, watch timer? Perhaps I missed a challenging subtlety?

Mara Rinn wrote:
Can you provide your opinion on how Odyssey meets your criteria of providing meaningful interaction rather than a challenging UI?


For one thing it strongly encourages co-operative play.


Cooperative play completely devoid of fun, where your friends wait around for you to scan sites down, wait around for you to hack, then gets to click like a maniac for 10 seconds.

I'll ask my friends along, and they'll probably do it, but they won't enjoy it.


Sounds like you're adapting already.

What was the fun part that got removed?


Nothing "fun" was removed, but that makes it fine to add something worse than sitting and waiting for a hack/analyzer cycle?

I'll note I'm talking about the loot spew, not the hacking minigame, which has potential and honestly should have been the focus of coop, not a pinata.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-05-29 11:24:37 UTC
Castor II wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its identical to WoW, in WoW the pinnacle of success in raiding, in EvE is null sec alliances, sov and associated play.

How did you figure this out? Joining an alliance and living in null is just one option of many.

Really? So I have just as much ability and reward other than the numbers if I hang in low sec or high sec or wormhole space? Cool I'm off to buy a titan and mothership to zip around high sec in. Then I'll claim Sov in a system I like. After that Ill declare war on 100 of the biggest alliances and bubble a gate in low sec to kill them.

No I wont will I. If I did any of those things the logical and sandbox thing would be for sandbox players to kill my capitals, kick me out of my system and pod kill me at my bubble. However game mechanics don't allow me to do any of those sandbox things. My sandbox play is artificially limited by design.




This is the stupidest post I've read all day

Oh the irony.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-05-29 11:27:54 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
I don't think "people who play something eye-waterringly painful just so they can clap themselves on the back for it" is a great demographic target.


So... dark souls' market performance isn't an indicator of anything?


Dark Souls was overhyped, I know some guys who still say it was too easy...

On the other hand I also know some guys who claim that dark souls isn't a real game, but some devilishly complex mechanic to test Your resistance to frustration... o_O

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#58 - 2013-05-29 11:47:41 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
As for "agreeing" with the OP, I have no horse in this race.


Except that being nullsec oriented, you find the idea of w-space mining becoming suicidally dangerous to be not upsetting.

You are right about a good game being about interactions with players rather than fighting a bad UI. Odyssey breaks the player interaction on several levels: no longer will players get stranded in w-space and need to coordinate with a rescue party or local residents to escape. No longer will probes be lost due to forgetful players, thus reducing the market interaction between consumer and supplier.

Odyssey breaks the interaction between hunter and hunted: no longer will deploying 7 probes keep your covert ops ship visible in space for at least 9 seconds: the opportunity for prey to smell the hunt is closed. When prey don't feel safe they will cease entering the dangerous areas. So Odyssey is another hindrance to players entering lowsec.

Odyssey breaks interactions between service providers and service users: no longer is there a role for an explorer in a mining corporation.

Odyssey is self defeating: an expansion based on discovery removes a significant piece of discovery content. Just because you don't find mining worthwhile doesn't mean that nobody find mining worthwhile.
I didn't know this. It's rather sad if true. Cry


All true to some extent.

The changes to probe behaviour, especially the forced recall, are going to affect a lot of WH play.

Moving gravi sites to not require scanning down just turns them into transient belts. These used to be the more valuable mining spots as they generally had better ores and were safer to mine in. Now they require no skill or ability to find and are no safer to mine in than an open belt. This change will likely significantly reduce the amount of losec & WH mining while reducing the value of the mid-range ores as hisec grav sites will be mined out quite soon after spawning.

Sad side-effects of the changes Ugh
Gus Huntah
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-05-29 12:05:30 UTC
Re the OP

I am a scanning noob.

The first time I tried my hand on exploration, I failed miserably. I proceeded to watch videos and study most available guides, until I mastered the technique.

I will never forget the first time after a lot of trial and error that I got a 100% hit on a sig. HELL YES!!

CCP please don dumb down everything.
Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
#60 - 2013-05-29 12:14:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its identical to WoW, in WoW the pinnacle of success in raiding, in EvE is null sec alliances, sov and associated play.

How did you figure this out? Joining an alliance and living in null is just one option of many.

Really? So I have just as much ability and reward other than the numbers if I hang in low sec or high sec or wormhole space? Cool I'm off to buy a titan and mothership to zip around high sec in. Then I'll claim Sov in a system I like. After that Ill declare war on 100 of the biggest alliances and bubble a gate in low sec to kill them.

No I wont will I. If I did any of those things the logical and sandbox thing would be for sandbox players to kill my capitals, kick me out of my system and pod kill me at my bubble. However game mechanics don't allow me to do any of those sandbox things. My sandbox play is artificially limited by design.




Your original point wasn't bad but what is this? Do you think you should be able to make the impact of 1000's of players concentrated in an organised structure? Sandbox does not just mean that you can do whatever you want.