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The Empires vs. Capsuleer Alliances

Author
Zuzmaw
MASS
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2013-05-27 16:18:34 UTC
o/

Recently I watched the 'Origins' EVE trailer, and at one part the narrator mentions that "the empires are losing their grasp on power." Could this be foreshadowing?

Since coalitions exist between alliances, there could be hundreds of capitals/super capitals put into one engagement. for instance, the Battle of Asakai, just incredible amounts of force that no empire has ever displayed.

In lore..

What is preventing capsuleers simply from invading empire sovereignty? Concord and empire navy can only do so much.

I'm not very lore savvy, I'm reading through Empyrean Age atm, but I would like more literature on this if there is any.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2013-05-27 17:57:58 UTC
Unfortunately, the Origins trailer represents a significant disconnect from the reality of many capsuleer-bloc-vs-Big-4 engagements. Consider:

- The 'big 4' can cyno jam their systems while hiding the cyno jammers from us.
- They can deliberately prevent us from locating other support operations, such as shipyards and mining colonies, until it becomes beneficial for us to lend a hand to them (i.e., missions and complexes).
- CONCORD is capable of locking down and prevent certain capsuleer actions at will.
- Perhaps most ironically, CONCORD is capable of setting us all flashy to each other... at which point the majority of capsuleer groups will rip each other to shreds for giggles.

See where I'm going with this? Just because it isn't waved in our faces, doesn't mean CONCORD and the Big 4 don't maintain significant control over the capsuleer class.
Agustice Arterius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-05-27 22:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Agustice Arterius
Esna Pitoojee wrote:
Unfortunately, the Origins trailer represents a significant disconnect from the reality of many capsuleer-bloc-vs-Big-4 engagements. Consider:

- The 'big 4' can cyno jam their systems while hiding the cyno jammers from us.
- They can deliberately prevent us from locating other support operations, such as shipyards and mining colonies, until it becomes beneficial for us to lend a hand to them (i.e., missions and complexes).
- CONCORD is capable of locking down and prevent certain capsuleer actions at will.
- Perhaps most ironically, CONCORD is capable of setting us all flashy to each other... at which point the majority of capsuleer groups will rip each other to shreds for giggles.

See where I'm going with this? Just because it isn't waved in our faces, doesn't mean CONCORD and the Big 4 don't maintain significant control over the capsuleer class.


I think you have to be aware that what happens in the lore, is typically completely different in game.

In the lore, the Empires, Player Alliances, and Pirate Gangs are all pretty equal in power.

In the game, they aren't at all...

It's sort of a double standard I guess, but it's like that in almost every video game.
Axel Kurki
Aseyakone
#4 - 2013-05-28 09:03:30 UTC
In the Tides of Change, I think it is more or less established that capsuleer alliances (in this case, the old Curse Alliance) are more capable than the local gangs - even more capable than the Angel Cartel.

Now, whether the empires could fight the capsuleers is perhaps up to debate. The lore has historically suffered from distortion in the scope (like Heth's educational reforms implemented in an interstellar empire having results one might expect from a small real-world nation state). So we probably need to take any given numbers with a good pinch of salt.

In a scenario of "all the nullsec alliances against all the factions with hisec", things depend on exactly how much CONCORD has control over us. Probably even the empires could terminate any clone contracts on their stations. CONCORD probably could turn all TCUs off. Naturally, the market would stop working, but this can be circumvented by direct trading. There would be capsuleers in the empire navies, and most "independent capsuleers" would stay passive - some would join the empires. The nullsec alliances would probably have a very large advantage on the heavy ship types (with the exception of the very heaviest ships). The empires would have a massive advantage on support from their oldfashioned meat & bone controlled navies, probably being able to harass more or less all of nullsec, quickly taking undefended stations, leading to an epic game of station ping pong.

If we forget game mechanics and focus on the setting, I remind that even capsuleer ships have crew, and unless Sansha Kuvakei would hand over his cloning methods, crew attrition would probably be the deciding factor. This would heavily favour the established empires with large populations. The initial "sensible" action for each side would be to try to glass each other's terrestial planets. Again, due to the large amounts of relatively crappy but good enough non-pod controlled ships, the empires would have an advantage in this game, though this has a chance of becoming a mutually assured destruction scenario.

Finally, we come to a "single big nullsec alliance decides to attack one of the big four empires". First, CONCORD intervention would be likely. If CONCORD declared that it would not intervene, the opposing empire might join the fight. And then nullsec block. And then an opposing nullsec block on the empire side. And then this would be a regular PvP campaign of "whose morale breaks first", with lots of rats being thrown in for extra annoyance.
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#5 - 2013-05-28 11:41:31 UTC
Zuzmaw wrote:

In lore..

What is preventing capsuleers simply from invading empire sovereignty?

In lore.. Why would the empires and CONCORD allow for such a thing.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-28 11:43:42 UTC
I think it is just a marketing metaphor.

Technically, we are limited by game mechanics to what we can do. Implementing new or improving upon existing game mechanics gives us more stuff to do; more stuff to control.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#7 - 2013-05-28 13:16:44 UTC
We have essentially blocked their expansion however. Any claims they might have pushed for on the frontier are now null. (Pun intended?)

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind

Zuzmaw
MASS
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2013-05-28 17:27:54 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Zuzmaw wrote:

In lore..

What is preventing capsuleers simply from invading empire sovereignty?

In lore.. Why would the empires and CONCORD allow for such a thing.


Self explanatory?

Perhaps you misunderstood my question...

What is preventing capsuleers simply from invading empire sovereignty?

Thanks to all else
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#9 - 2013-05-28 19:44:32 UTC
The wise make plans for when the empires will no longer exist.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-05-29 10:11:01 UTC
Zuzmaw wrote:
What is preventing capsuleers simply from invading empire sovereignty?


Other capsuleers. For all the independants, there are still plenty that are fiercely loyal to their chosen side. In essence, the Empyrian war is already a war waged against empires, it's just that the capsuleers aren't united at all.
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2013-05-29 17:01:05 UTC
To be clear on something: My above post regarding the controls CONCORD retains on capsuleers was based on a conversation I had with a storyline Dev a while back on this subject. Those are - as I understand it - entirely in-character restrictions. To be hugely honest I'm not necessarily a huge fan of the degree of control espoused there, but nonetheless that is what I have been told.