These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Methods of Romance
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#1 - 2013-05-27 17:54:30 UTC
It seems several people have decided to check the 'other' romance thread and found themselves quite disappointed. I thought I'd offer a better topic than that, and discuss what some of us hoped to find in there. Since I'm not well learned on the methods of courting and romance of other cultures, I thought I'd discuss that of the Caldari. Specifically, Ishukone and Hyasyoda Caldari, since those two subcultures are ones I know best. Perhaps others can post those of their own?

Hyasyoda is deeply rooted in tradition, and many aspects of Hyasyoda culture tend to be the same. Gift giving is a common method of displaying attraction and affection, though only certain gifts are acceptable. If a man wishes to court a woman, it is common for him to gift the woman a gift through her father. If a woman wishes to court a man, she will typically give the gift through the man's supervisor.

The gifts are often very defined by meaning yet simple, often taking the form of a single Raata era coin. Since these are hard to come by in authenticity, modern replicas are often used. This is roughly comparable to exchanging rings in the Federation. Assuming the gifts are actually delivered and accepted openly... they'll meet and enjoy the company of each other for several days during appropriate hours, such as lunch breaks or evenings. Moving in together is not done until marriage, when their houses are literally considered merged. Two families becoming one.

Ishukone tends to be a far more worldly in its methods, with less restrictions on dating and courting than I've ever seen anywhere else. Indeed, gifts are often exchanged directly, and lovers often move in immediately. The inclusion of parents and supervisors is entirely optional, though it is only considered appropriate for said parents and supervisors to be introduced soon after.

In both subcultures, hiding or lying about your relationship is considered disrespectful to outsiders, as it suggests that you conduct the relationship against the collective good for some reason. On the same note, mentioning it loudly is considered rude and uncalled for, as it suggests that your relationship is important enough to warrant attention.

In tribute to somebody very special to me, I think I should offer a mention to Mordu's Legion. While this company of mercenaries don't have much of a family culture to speak of, building their ranks primarily through recruitment rather than procreation... they do have a very important Code of Honor. This Code defines a set of social norms that keep the mercenary outfit getting along smoothly. Things such as, 'the greater beard has right of way', and 'cheats get beat, snitches get stitches'. It is by this Code that lovers are expected to treat each other the same way as they might treat fellow mercenaries.

I'm not totally familiar with this Code in its entirety, but I understand that it plays a very intimate role in courting and love. I am lead to understand the Code itself is chapters long, with at least one informally designated Keeper of the Code aboard each ship and station, often an older and more experienced mercenary. This Keeper is often the one who performs or attends various binding ceremonies... whether marriage or otherwise.

As far as I understand, which I'll admit my understanding is limited to my own experiences... this is how courting tends to be. Please note that Ishukone tends to be highly multicultural in nature compared to other Caldari megacorps, especially among capsuleers. Experiences may vary.

Katrina Oniseki
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-05-27 17:55:39 UTC
In general, Intaki courtships tend - like the Intaki people themselves - to be quiet but passionate. The most spiritual of Intaki believe that some loves transcend a single life, and that those whose dedication to each other is the strongest may end up living many, many cycles in each other's company, but most of us don't buy into such strong romanticism. Nonetheless, Intaki aren't generally anywhere near as prone to casual flings as Gallenteans are stereotyped as being (and although that stereotype is largely inaccurate in itself, that isn't a matter really relevant to a discussion of Intaki romance). In matters of love, Intaki are certainly not given to whirlwind romances; our engagements can take years, and some even take upwards of a decade! Intaki are very much aware that regardless of whether you believe another life will follow this one, a romantic attachment - successful or otherwise - will affect the rest of your life. Your first kiss, your first date, the loss of your virginity, the first time someone tells you "I love you" - these memories will be with you forever.

Because of this, Intaki like to be absolutely certain that their romantic partner is right for them - and that they are right for their partner. Intaki couples will often not sleep together (in either sense of the word) for months, and might cohabit for years without an actual proposal of marriage being made.

This caution and conservatism gives more than a few foreigners the mistaken impression that Intaki don't really care about love, romance or sex, but this really couldn't really be further from the truth! An Intaki spends so long making sure their partner is right for them because they really do want someone they can spend their life - and perhaps, if they believe in it, many lives - with. While an Intaki man or woman will not usually make a massive public spectacle of their romantic attachment, they do feel passionately about it and will often spend a lot of time learning about their partner so that they can engage in carefully-planned romantic guestures, which, while lacking the panache and audacity of their Gallentean counterparts, are no less heartfelt.

There are thousands of works of Intaki literature regarding romance, courtship and love, many of which have become wildly popular in the Federation and certain more liberal parts of the Amarr Empire because the slow-and-steady Intaki approach to love and courtship is seen as exotic and charmingly foreign (in the Federation) or exotic but eerily familiar (in the Amarr Empire). If anyone is looking for a gentle introduction to Intaki romantic literature, I can definitely recommend "Ten-Lotus Lake" and "Hidebound," or "The Prince of Asaya" if you're looking for something a little more saucy. "The Mentor of Manpat" is a little bit risqué for someone not familiar with the general tropes of Intaki literature but I know there's a large number of Intaki baseliners who read my posts on the IGS, and the bookworms among them will most certainly lynch me if I don't mention it.

And, of course, no discussion of Intaki romance would be complete without this: yes, the rumours you've heard are indeed true - there is a thousand-page, fully-illustrated "sex manual" which combines traditional Intaki spiritualism, philosophy, physical art and meditation with essays on every type of sexual congress stunning in both their breadth and detail. It describes everything from various aromatic oils and herbal preparations to muscular exercises to literally hundreds of positions in which one can do the deed. It is, unsurprisingly, rampantly popular in every place that you're legally allowed to purchase it and in the vast majority of places that you aren't.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#3 - 2013-05-27 18:00:35 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

And, of course, no discussion of Intaki romance would be complete without this: yes, the rumours you've heard are indeed true - there is a thousand-page, fully-illustrated "sex manual" which combines traditional Intaki spiritualism, philosophy, physical art and meditation with essays on every type of sexual congress stunning in both their breadth and detail. It describes everything from various aromatic oils and herbal preparations to muscular exercises to literally hundreds of positions in which one can do the deed. It is, unsurprisingly, rampantly popular in every place that you're legally allowed to purchase it and in the vast majority of places that you aren't.


I had originally intended to leave out the sexual aspects of Caldari courting, as it is not entirely proper for me to discuss that on the IGS. Perhaps somebody else will talk about it for me.

Katrina Oniseki
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-05-27 18:12:13 UTC
If you're not comfortable with that being discussed in this thread I could easily move that section back to the other one.

I hope the other paragraphs were helpful, at least.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#5 - 2013-05-27 18:25:37 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
If you're not comfortable with that being discussed in this thread I could easily move that section back to the other one.

I hope the other paragraphs were helpful, at least.



It doesn't bother me to read it. I simply don't want to post it.

Katrina Oniseki
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-05-27 19:22:47 UTC
I'd offer my thoughts about romance among the Ni-Kunni if that would be acceptable?
I cannot really speak for romance among the Amarr or Khanid though.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Denak Calamari
Incorruptibles
#7 - 2013-05-27 19:33:13 UTC
Yes, the Mordu's Legion Code of Honor was indeed several chapters long, I used to try and memorize as much of them as I could, but sadly most of them I have forgotten over the years. The Code was used for pretty much all interactions with fellow mercenaries and was very important for us, violating the Code is greatly frowned upon.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2013-05-27 19:40:07 UTC
In the Society of Conscious Thought, people usually woo their microscopes all day.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-05-27 20:26:52 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
In the Society of Conscious Thought, people usually woo their microscopes all day.

That's a euphemism, right? Or is it an insult?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#10 - 2013-05-27 22:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
In the Society of Conscious Thought, people usually woo their microscopes all day.

That's a euphemism, right? Or is it an insult?


That was a try at humour.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#11 - 2013-05-27 23:58:51 UTC
Among the Vherokior Clan Leshya, and many of our neighboring sister-clans on Matar, there is not as often a significant amount of courtship in regards to securing a long-term commitment. As Clan and Tribe come before Self among us, most marriages, whether intra-clan or inter-clan, are arranged by the parents and other elders within the clan, as well as one or more shamans. This is especially true for inter-clan marriages, such as my own, which are sometimes done for the purpose of merging two smaller clans into one larger clan. This also serves the purpose of preventing "inbreeding" from being an issue as the parents and elders have access to our geneology records.

There are, of course, courtship practices among us, since not all marriages are arranged, nor is it required to accept an arranged marriage, though it has always been rare among Clan Leshya for them to be denied. When one of the two show disinterest in the arrangement, if the other is particularly interested, they will often engage in courtship to bring the other individual around. In these instances, courtship often includes displaying signs of one's suitability as a long-term partner, and can involve a number of traditional rituals designed to showcase one's suitability, usually centered around cunning, will, and intelligence. If after these courtship rituals, the previously uninterested person is still conflicted about whether or not they wish to accept the arranged marriage, it is common for the two to go on a shared vision quest under the guidance of a shaman and seek the advice of the Spirits. This ritual is also often performed by any non-arranged couple desiring to marry.

However, the most common courtship practices among us tend to be for something more along the lines of "one-night stands" and "friends with benefits" as I've heard some Gallenteans refer to them. There is much less traditional restriction on these practices, especially the "one-night stands," as we don't really see these as being particularly taboo or socially inappropriate. If a member of the clan is interested in such activity with another member of the clan, it is often simply a matter of telling them so. In fact, where tradition does tend to fall into play on these matters are their use as bonding experiences, intra-clan conflict resolution, and general stress relief for the unmarried among us, or those in "unusual" marriages, so to speak? As an example of the latter, my own marriage. Though I did come to love my husband and had a child by him, he could not really satisfy me in every way because my interest lies with women, not with men. As such, I had a number of companions with whom I had ritualized relations centered around stress relief that my husband could not provide me.

Polyamoury is not terribly uncommon, and polygamy does occur on occasion as well, usually as a result of one gender outnumbering the other gender by a significant margin during a particular generation

These traditions, of course, vary some from clan to clan within our Tribe on Matar, and tend to vary by a larger extent among those clans living on other worlds, though I have heard some have stayed very close to those traditions practiced on Matar.

I am not nearly as familiar with the courtship practices among the other Tribes.
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-05-28 19:51:14 UTC
Other contributors have spoken at length about how thier cultures conduct romance and this is... enlightening, I would like to thank you all for your efforts, I anticipate them being most useful in future
ahem

Anyway... as far as I know among large Ni-Kunni families like mine, marriages are generally arranged by the parents of the children and they are usually used to forge alliances with other large prominent families. As a girl-child I wasn't exactly an eligible asset as I could only be married out to another family rather than someone marrying into the Ad-Drelana family, if you understand my meaning. As far as courtship goes, this varies from family to family and it depends how prominent a certain branch is within a family. The more prominent your branch is within a family will depend on how orthodox your courtship rituals go. This can vary from a chaperone and a Maran (male companion for a female, usually a member of her immediate family) on every date to an informal meeting of the parents prior to meeting the selected bride. The actual process of courtship tends to be long and drawn out with emphasis given to the bride and groom trying to get along, since it's fairly rare for them to have any actual say in the matter. I have to admit my own experience with this is somewhat... limited, as my parents hadn't yet chosen a suitable mate for me when they shipped out and my uncle had other priorities for me.

Marriages within the Ni-Kunni tend to be very very extravagant affairs, with the whole family invited and a fairly large venue booked out. Whilst the ceremony itself tends to be fairly private, the reception will have everyone and his slave invited. When you're dealing with groups that can be up to seventy to a hundred strong if you include the very extended family plus friends, colleagues, OC's and CO's, this tends to be a very expensive affair so everyone is encouraged to chip in in some way or other, though small gifts will often be given to very special guests, usually money or some kind of trinket. For instance at my cousin's wedding, the captain of her ship turned up and he was presented with an engraved datapad. The wedding will include traditional and modern dancing and music and toasts... and food. Lots and lots of food of various kinds, including curries and sweet meats and various other delicacies. These parties tend to be public affairs and so the whole community will often turn out to wish the happy couple well. However despite the large crowds, it very rarely gets rowdy, largely because everyone has to be on duty the next day and no one really wants to turn up to work half cut. Given the city I lived in, dress uniform was encouraged for these family gatherings although I'm not sure how they do things out in civvie street.

This seems very complicated to outsiders and non Ni-Kunni, but that's just the way we do things. The aforementioned 'Friends with benefits' is frowned upon in polite Ni-Kunni society as casual liaisons of this kind are said to promote sin and debauchery and it is an unwise unmarried couple who only book a single room in a travelling hostel, Quarters or a hotel, as the Morality Police will be waiting with a presentation on the 'Promotion of Virtue' That being said, casual flings do happen, most often in Cadets (when you have teenagers in close proximity to each other, things are bound to happen) or after a long hard tour when everyone needs to let off steam. Ahem.

Anyway as said, this is how I remember partnerships among my particular social strata, and I'm well aware my circumstances may not be representative of the wider Ni-Kunni community.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#13 - 2013-05-31 16:27:41 UTC
My understanding is that Matari wooing methods often involve large clubs. Brutal but effective.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Anslo
Scope Works
#14 - 2013-05-31 16:31:00 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
My understanding is that Matari wooing methods often involve large clubs. Brutal but effective.


And yours involves...what? 20 ED Pills? Anti-Wrinkle cream? Witch effigy burnings at sunset?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Nahira Hoseen
Coin and Circle Company
#15 - 2013-05-31 17:07:47 UTC
I will try to supplement miss Adrelana's excellent summary with some observations regarding my own native community, a civilian one on Tash-Murkon Prime.

Many local Ni-Kunni communities will have a "patron" - an influential person, usually of some wealth, who acts as a community leader and mediator. My own father is the patron of our community, as was my grandfather before him.

Like miss Adrelana said, weddings are large affairs, and although guests sometimes do contribute, usually by bringing some food and drink, the patron will often cover most or even all of the monetary expenses, and host the wedding itself. He will usually take an active part in both the ceremony itself and the festivities around it. If the bride's father is unavailable for whatever reason, he may be the one to give her away to her groom, or if he is an ordained priest, which is sometimes the case, he will conduct the wedding rites. He will also play host to the guests, and take responsibility for seeing to the security of the wedding when that is an issue. If the groom or the bride are close friends of the family or directly employed by the patron, the patron will sometimes pay for their honeymoon trip, too.

Weddings are only one piece of the puzzle, of course. The patron and the wider community are heavily involved in other ceremonies too, from naming ceremonies to graduation ceremonies to funerals. In this way, an entire local community essentially affirms itself as part of the same large, extended family, where everyone works together to support one another.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-05-31 17:11:24 UTC
I have a few thoughts to share about Ethnic Gallente "romance". This will serve as a placeholder

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Iwan Terpalen
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-05-31 17:17:17 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
My understanding is that Matari wooing methods often involve large clubs. Brutal but effective.

I've been on a sort of working vacation to Pator, and guess what? It does involve large clubs. But I wouldn't call the dancing "brutal," it's more like "effective."
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#18 - 2013-05-31 18:04:16 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
My understanding is that Matari wooing methods often involve large clubs. Brutal but effective.


Large clubs are also a thing in the Fed, quite a popular one. Not my thing for the most part (Re. Andreus' contribution) but an avid culture sampler such as yourself might enjoy them allot.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-05-31 18:08:54 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
My understanding is that Matari wooing methods often involve large clubs. Brutal but effective.

There's a gentleman's club in Bogelek called "The Tired Joke."

I think you'd fit in perfectly.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Sorjat
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-05-31 19:56:00 UTC
To spot a 'wild' Caldari women is pretty easy... just look for the one who undid the top button of her uniform and allowed her hair to grow a half-centimeter beyond Caldari Navy regulation length.

As for matrimonial thoughts, well I think I'd rather marry my ships computer. As cold and calculating as it is, it has more feelings and doesn't wear a uniform all day.

Insanity is not hubris, not pride; it is inflation of the ego to its ultimate - confusion between him who worships and that which is worshipped. Man has not eaten God; God has eaten man.

-- PKD
123Next pageLast page