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Why not add new ships instead of rebalance?

Author
Monistat Seven
Zero Dot Zero
#1 - 2013-05-26 16:38:39 UTC
So now there are going to be an 3D art model of an Apocalypse along with an ancient expired Scorpion in the library of digital heaven. Many ships are getting "rebalanced" (this is such a made up word) and there are new attributes that now invalidates many many years of ship fits.

I'm all for the new attributes, but why not just add more dang ship models using the new 'rebalanced' specs? I've seen Dodge Ram Pickup Trucks be respec'd through my life, but the old ones are still on the road too (oh and some are collectable). Just saying.

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2013-05-26 16:39:38 UTC


--> Features & Ideas Discussion

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-05-26 16:40:06 UTC
That's like adding new floors onto a skyscraper instead of fixing the foundations. Eventually it's going to crap out and collapse and the whooooooooooooooole thing is going to come down.

EDIT:
Doc Fury wrote:

Oh shut up.

Dodixie > Hek

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2013-05-26 16:41:12 UTC
Monistat Seven wrote:
why not just add more dang ship models using the new 'rebalanced' specs?
Because that would leave a lot of broken and unbalanced junk in the game that will require fixing.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-05-26 16:42:25 UTC
So you're proposing everything currently in the game would stay exactly like it is and the new rebalanced versions of ships would be actually new ships?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6 - 2013-05-26 16:49:51 UTC
Monistat Seven wrote:
So now there are going to be an 3D art model of an Apocalypse along with an ancient expired Scorpion in the library of digital heaven. Many ships are getting "rebalanced" (this is such a made up word) and there are new attributes that now invalidates many many years of ship fits.

I'm all for the new attributes, but why not just add more dang ship models using the new 'rebalanced' specs? I've seen Dodge Ram Pickup Trucks be respec'd through my life, but the old ones are still on the road too (oh and some are collectable). Just saying.



To continue your analogy.

If the Dodge Ram model is discovered to have a serious flaw then that model is recalled.

That's how the game works. When a more balanced design is created then all the previous models are 'recalled' and updated to the new specs.

Mr Epeen Cool
Monistat Seven
Zero Dot Zero
#7 - 2013-05-26 17:05:16 UTC
Good points and wow... you actually made me see the error of my thinking how some ships are broken and would throw off the new mix. Good job forums.

Guess my lament is that I just miss the one arm scorpy and the gapping crotch apocs and would still love to fly them next to the newer models. Just a shame there is no digital history that is maintained.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#8 - 2013-05-26 17:49:48 UTC
The day after they released the new battlecruisers I asked CCP Fozzie why they didn't leave the existing ships as they were and just change the BP's. He said something along the lines of "Well if we left the original ships in game then we wouldn't understand how our changes affected the game."

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-05-26 18:13:54 UTC
Monistat Seven wrote:
Many ships are getting "rebalanced" (this is such a made up word).


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rebalance
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rebalance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebalance

Funny. Seems every dictionary that I check, online, or even the two I have on hand for school, all seem to be convinced that rebalancing, rebalance, or to be rebalanced, are all quite real words. I wonder how much CCP paid them all, to start using that made up word, huh?

Now, even though I'm sure my clearing that misunderstanding up for you has made your day, and allowed you to say to yourself; 'Gosh, how could I possibly have been so foolish? What a silly little man I am', I will be so kind as to even answer your main question.

Rebalancing, as it applies to ship design in Eve, is the matter of reducing the abilities, or boosting the abilities of ships, relative to their own performance, but also relative to the performance of other ships in the game at their class, as well as above and below it. When a ship is dramatically overpowered, it invalidates similarly tiered ships, and makes them not even worth playing by comparison. Take the hurricane for example. as a battlecruiser, it was so powerful, cost effective, and versatile, that not only did it heavily outperform ships in its own ship class like the brutix, ferox, and harbinger, but it made much more expensive, role specific ships, like the muninn, not worth using most of the time.

Now, as you've probably guessed by now, this is a very bad thing. When a ship is overpowered, or out of balance, because of all the other ships near it that it makes not worth playing, it effectively removes those ships from the game as playable ship classes, so when CCP rebalances something like battlecruisers, they aren't simply nerfing one or two classes of ships, they are, in effect, adding 5 or 6 ships to the game. Look at the frigate, cruiser, and battlecruiser rebalances so far. Even the mining barge rebalance. All of these saw lots of ships now getting used, that never used to be flown in any noticeable numbers.

More ships would throw the game out of balance, and REDUCE the number of playable, viable ships in the game. Look at the last time they added ships, tier 3 battlecruisers. Sure, they are cool ships, but they were, and are simply too powerful still. I love flying them, and that's because I know that they outperform battlecruisers and battleships alike, for a middleground price-point.

You're welcome.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-05-26 18:15:35 UTC
Monistat Seven wrote:
Good points and wow... you actually made me see the error of my thinking how some ships are broken and would throw off the new mix. Good job forums.

Guess my lament is that I just miss the one arm scorpy and the gapping crotch apocs and would still love to fly them next to the newer models. Just a shame there is no digital history that is maintained.



well this has less to do with the "rebalancing" and more to do with the art department. Some of the ships models were changed long before any rebalancing occurred.

In many cases I don't think the V3 updates made them look any better.
Admiral Sarah Solette
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-05-26 21:40:53 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Monistat Seven wrote:
Many ships are getting "rebalanced" (this is such a made up word).


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rebalance
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rebalance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebalance

Funny. Seems every dictionary that I check, online, or even the two I have on hand for school, all seem to be convinced that rebalancing, rebalance, or to be rebalanced, are all quite real words. I wonder how much CCP paid them all, to start using that made up word, huh?

Now, even though I'm sure my clearing that misunderstanding up for you has made your day, and allowed you to say to yourself; 'Gosh, how could I possibly have been so foolish? What a silly little man I am', I will be so kind as to even answer your main question.


Perhaps you should look up the word 'hyperbole' in your dictionaries before you make yourself out to be an ass.

You're welcome.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#12 - 2013-05-26 21:45:45 UTC
Um...

Gnosis?
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#13 - 2013-05-26 22:12:07 UTC
Because CCP has refocused on the approach of fixing and polishing existing content. This extends to ships as well.

They don't want players to see a worthless ship, or a badly designed feature and think "this is terrible, why is it even in the game".
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-05-26 22:28:48 UTC
Monistat Seven wrote:
So now there are going to be an 3D art model of an Apocalypse along with an ancient expired Scorpion in the library of digital heaven. Many ships are getting "rebalanced" (this is such a made up word) and there are new attributes that now invalidates many many years of ship fits.

I'm all for the new attributes, but why not just add more dang ship models using the new 'rebalanced' specs? I've seen Dodge Ram Pickup Trucks be respec'd through my life, but the old ones are still on the road too (oh and some are collectable). Just saying.




As the game changes over time things need to be rebalanced, if you left the old and just added new then you would end up with useless ships in-game as nobody would use them.


Rebalancing is an on-going process.
Blake Gates Heleneto
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-05-26 22:36:30 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Monistat Seven wrote:
Many ships are getting "rebalanced" (this is such a made up word).


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rebalance
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rebalance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebalance

Funny. Seems every dictionary that I check, online, or even the two I have on hand for school, all seem to be convinced that rebalancing, rebalance, or to be rebalanced, are all quite real words. I wonder how much CCP paid them all, to start using that made up word, huh?

Now, even though I'm sure my clearing that misunderstanding up for you has made your day, and allowed you to say to yourself; 'Gosh, how could I possibly have been so foolish? What a silly little man I am', I will be so kind as to even answer your main question.

Rebalancing, as it applies to ship design in Eve, is the matter of reducing the abilities, or boosting the abilities of ships, relative to their own performance, but also relative to the performance of other ships in the game at their class, as well as above and below it. When a ship is dramatically overpowered, it invalidates similarly tiered ships, and makes them not even worth playing by comparison. Take the hurricane for example. as a battlecruiser, it was so powerful, cost effective, and versatile, that not only did it heavily outperform ships in its own ship class like the brutix, ferox, and harbinger, but it made much more expensive, role specific ships, like the muninn, not worth using most of the time.

Now, as you've probably guessed by now, this is a very bad thing. When a ship is overpowered, or out of balance, because of all the other ships near it that it makes not worth playing, it effectively removes those ships from the game as playable ship classes, so when CCP rebalances something like battlecruisers, they aren't simply nerfing one or two classes of ships, they are, in effect, adding 5 or 6 ships to the game. Look at the frigate, cruiser, and battlecruiser rebalances so far. Even the mining barge rebalance. All of these saw lots of ships now getting used, that never used to be flown in any noticeable numbers.

More ships would throw the game out of balance, and REDUCE the number of playable, viable ships in the game. Look at the last time they added ships, tier 3 battlecruisers. Sure, they are cool ships, but they were, and are simply too powerful still. I love flying them, and that's because I know that they outperform battlecruisers and battleships alike, for a middleground price-point.

You're welcome.


Calm the hell down man and go outside. I think it's time for some personal interaction with humans because it isn't this goddamn serious.

Go enjoy some sunlight; it will help you.

You're welcome.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#16 - 2013-05-27 00:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
> Why not add new ships ... ?

Because it requires some work. Enjoy catching cans in Odyssey!
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2013-05-27 00:25:13 UTC
I agree with OP. If he was in charge of rebalancing, we would still have AOE doomsdays and tracking titans, as they will have never been rebalanced. No downside to that at all.
Zane Tekitsu
The Munitions Miracle Network
#18 - 2013-05-27 00:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Zane Tekitsu
Once the ships have been rebalanced, then CCP will be in a much better position to give you your faction mining cruiser back....
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#19 - 2013-05-27 01:21:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Monistat Seven wrote:
why not just add more dang ship models using the new 'rebalanced' specs?
Because that would leave a lot of broken and unbalanced junk in the game that will require fixing.


This is true, but wouldn't said "broken and unbalanced junk" slowly die off as they get blown up, eventually leaving the few remaining items to be prized collectors items?

Profit favors the prepared

Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-05-27 01:57:09 UTC
Blake Gates Heleneto wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Monistat Seven wrote:
Many ships are getting "rebalanced" (this is such a made up word).


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rebalance
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/rebalance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebalance

Funny. Seems every dictionary that I check, online, or even the two I have on hand for school, all seem to be convinced that rebalancing, rebalance, or to be rebalanced, are all quite real words. I wonder how much CCP paid them all, to start using that made up word, huh?

Now, even though I'm sure my clearing that misunderstanding up for you has made your day, and allowed you to say to yourself; 'Gosh, how could I possibly have been so foolish? What a silly little man I am', I will be so kind as to even answer your main question.

Rebalancing, as it applies to ship design in Eve, is the matter of reducing the abilities, or boosting the abilities of ships, relative to their own performance, but also relative to the performance of other ships in the game at their class, as well as above and below it. When a ship is dramatically overpowered, it invalidates similarly tiered ships, and makes them not even worth playing by comparison. Take the hurricane for example. as a battlecruiser, it was so powerful, cost effective, and versatile, that not only did it heavily outperform ships in its own ship class like the brutix, ferox, and harbinger, but it made much more expensive, role specific ships, like the muninn, not worth using most of the time.

Now, as you've probably guessed by now, this is a very bad thing. When a ship is overpowered, or out of balance, because of all the other ships near it that it makes not worth playing, it effectively removes those ships from the game as playable ship classes, so when CCP rebalances something like battlecruisers, they aren't simply nerfing one or two classes of ships, they are, in effect, adding 5 or 6 ships to the game. Look at the frigate, cruiser, and battlecruiser rebalances so far. Even the mining barge rebalance. All of these saw lots of ships now getting used, that never used to be flown in any noticeable numbers.

More ships would throw the game out of balance, and REDUCE the number of playable, viable ships in the game. Look at the last time they added ships, tier 3 battlecruisers. Sure, they are cool ships, but they were, and are simply too powerful still. I love flying them, and that's because I know that they outperform battlecruisers and battleships alike, for a middleground price-point.

You're welcome.


Calm the hell down man and go outside. I think it's time for some personal interaction with humans because it isn't this goddamn serious.

Go enjoy some sunlight; it will help you.

You're welcome.



Tried that. Sunlight burned. Experience was NOT pleasant. Thanks-a-lot for nothing, jerk.

You're welcome.
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