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Space Trash the art of Launching drones/Cans too Decloak at a Stargate... Is it against the EULA??

Author
Kelrift
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-05-26 13:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelrift
Sorry about that .... Now let me rephrase

As far as EULA it has been Brought to my Attention that are conflicting Ideals as to What are To many objects used to De-cloak at a Gate camp.

at first it was stated that 50ish Is a decent rule to go by

Then after a player compliant it was said that over 160 is too much

but after personal loading grid test we have no issues at 160ish

so I guess I would like you guys to help Discuss How much is to many drone/cans used for De-cloaking purpose's on a Star system Gate ?

And is it totally up to what ever GM that responds to a Complaint How many is to many ?
Kelrift
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-05-26 13:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelrift
removed text
Rengerel en Distel
#3 - 2013-05-26 13:20:08 UTC
Posting GM mail is against the forum rules. Each GM has the authority to read the rules as they see fit. One guy sees 20 cans and thinks OK. The next sees 20 cans and thinks it's excessive.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Kelrift
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-05-26 13:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelrift
Removed content
Kelrift
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-05-26 13:23:57 UTC
Didnt know its against forum rules... =/ please delete if so ... and sorry

Just wanna clarify a game play issue

flakeys
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-05-26 13:27:51 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Posting GM mail is against the forum rules. Each GM has the authority to read the rules as they see fit. One guy sees 20 cans and thinks OK. The next sees 20 cans and thinks it's excessive.



But he has a point.




But then you have this problem with allmost every type of petition you make.Shiplosses , marketmistakes , pvp ''tactics'' wich are unusuall/uncommon .

There are rules but there are also so many gaps in between those rules that it is a matter of being lucky/unlucky in a lot of cases wich GM is handling your petition and maybe even in some cases how his day is going.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

flakeys
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-05-26 13:30:34 UTC
Kelrift wrote:
Didnt know its against forum rules... =/ please delete if so ... and sorry

Just wanna clarify a game play issue



Yup posting them is against it and i believe but am not 100% sure even discussing it is.You'll find out verry shortly i'd think when the thread get's closed but i would advice removing the GM responses for sure.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-26 13:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
The thing about lag is that most nodes include multiple systems. If you are dropping 100 drones 1 jump out from Jita on a Saturday then there will be an issue, if you are out in the back end of Minmatar space on Tuesday it wont matter.

That being said, 50 or 60 drones/cans/probes are totally irrelevant as far as lag and as far as decloaking. Drop 2 or 3 hundred and get some of those covops cheaters! They will whine and cry and call the GM's, but it is very unlikely that the GM will take your camp down due to lag. And if they do you can just move somewhere else.

Its important to remember that GM's don't take sides, they don't care who kills who or why, only that the few rules in Eve are maintained. You as the aggressor are not in anyway "wrong" or guilty by default. You are playing the game as designed, the GM's are here to support you as much as the non-aggressor. They may take some time to explain why your camp is out of place and how to fix that, but you wont be in any "trouble" for setting it up.

Best of luck in your hunt.
Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-05-26 13:35:09 UTC
+1 to Flakey's advice to, just edit out the GM parts of your OP. Soon as an ISD see's the thread it will get locked otherwise.
Kelrift
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-05-26 13:36:44 UTC
Sorry about that .... Now let me rephrase

As far as EULA it has been Brought to my Attention that are conflicting Ideals as to What are To many objects used to De-cloak at a Gate camp.

at first it was stated that 50ish Is a decent rule to go by

Then after a player compliant it was said that over 160 is too much

but after personal loading grid test we have no issues at 160ish

so I guess I would like you guys to help Discuss How much is to many drone/cans used for De-cloaking purpose's on a Star system Gate ?

And is it totally up to what ever GM that responds to a Complaint How many is to many ?
Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-05-26 13:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Yeah the last time this came up 200 objects seemed to be a good starting point, thats enough to actually start decloaking stuff and not so many that lag will be an issue. I can't find that thread, it was a couple months ago.

I have found one of the fastest ways to get debris out is with core probe launchers. 1 every 2 seconds as you orbit the gate and a hold full of them to reload. It has been a while since I have used them so double check to make sure they decloak.

I know it sounds like I am a gate camper, but really I spend a lot more time running them and I have come to think that cloaks are a bit too effective. Debris camps are one of the only counters, and as such the only thing that keeps it interesting.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-05-26 13:54:40 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
The thing about lag is that most nodes include multiple systems. If you are dropping 100 drones 1 jump out from Jita on a Saturday then there will be an issue, if you are out in the back end of Minmatar space on Tuesday it wont matter.

It's true that nodes do incorporate multiple systems, but for one Jita doesn't share its node with any other systems. That being said, systems that do share nodes don't necessarily have any relation to each other, by physical location or otherwise. An unscheduled fight in a random nullsec system could for example bring tidi to systems in w-space as well as systems scattered throughout k-space, even systems on the opposite side of the map.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Lady Areola Fappington
#13 - 2013-05-26 13:56:25 UTC
The number is intentionally not hard-set for a reason. If CCP said "200 cans is too much", then you know everyone would be dropping 199 cans.

It's one of those tricks that, no matter the number, if you catch a cloaky with it, it will be reported just on the chance that a reimbursement/camp teardown will be made.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-05-26 13:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Also 2 guys in fast frigs will really help. when the target first appears they tap it on the OV with the "auto look in the direction of" feature on. Then double click in space wherever their screen centers with MWD on. It takes some practice to get right, but camping leaves plenty of time for practice along with cat gifs and goon jokes.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-05-26 13:57:56 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Yup posting them is against it and i believe but am not 100% sure even discussing it is.


Discussing it is still a lockable offence. But from experience it seems CCP pick and choose when they want to implement the rules or not. The only reason they do it by the way is because the GMs seem to give out incorrect information all the time.
Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-05-26 14:00:54 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Yup posting them is against it and i believe but am not 100% sure even discussing it is.


Discussing it is still a lockable offence. But from experience it seems CCP pick and choose when they want to implement the rules or not. The only reason they do it by the way is because the GMs seem to give out incorrect information all the time.


Its a good thread though. I have seen a bunch of crappy clueless gate camps lately, any information that will help those guys is important. Hopefully the OP can edit out the GM portion of the thread and get it on track.
Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-05-26 14:04:02 UTC
What do you call a goon gardener?
Lemok Sonji
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
#18 - 2013-05-26 14:07:30 UTC
Kelrift wrote:
Sorry about that .... Now let me rephrase

As far as EULA it has been Brought to my Attention that are conflicting Ideals as to What are To many objects used to De-cloak at a Gate camp.

at first it was stated that 50ish Is a decent rule to go by

Then after a player compliant it was said that over 160 is too much

but after personal loading grid test we have no issues at 160ish

so I guess I would like you guys to help Discuss How much is to many drone/cans used for De-cloaking purpose's on a Star system Gate ?

And is it totally up to what ever GM that responds to a Complaint How many is to many ?


I think you are confusing amount with lag.

For one person who has a good computer, good internet connection, and in a back-end system with very little traffic, 500 cans might not even cause a small lag.

For another person, who has a so-so computer and a thin internet connect, and an read with several busy systems, 100 cans can cause him a lag on loading the system, as in you will see him, but his grid will not even load up by the time he is dead.

So you can't get a strict number. Its a case by case situation. If the blown up guy petition, and say "hey, the area is pretty empty and everything was fine until it took me 1 minute to load grid", a GM can consider this an exploit and causing lag, and you will get your nice ban.
If on the other hand he got his grid in 2 seconds and was decloaked instantly another second later, that will most likely mean he didn't get a lag and everything was legit no matter how much he cry.

I'll be very much surprised if a GM tells you "X is the magic number".
Corey Fumimasa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-05-26 14:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Lemok Sonji wrote:
...

For one person who has a good computer, good internet connection, and in a back-end system with very little traffic, 500 cans might not even cause a small lag.

....


Overloading the grid will cause server side side lag, this is why we have TiDi. And this is the only lag that the GM's will be measuring.

You make a good point though about different end user configurations. It may appear to a player with all their brackets up that a certain grid layout is causing them lag. And it may well be doing that for them. However that is not at all what the GM's are measuring.
Kelrift
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-05-26 14:29:11 UTC
Well i think (not totally sure) that they base their Conclusion on system load server side.. not on pilots computer and connection issues... as that is a uncontrollable factor to any CCP employee.. i least I would think so. so based on that then I'm guessing then that it will depend the traffic of said system and will it cause lag to the sever...(as player lag and sever lag are two different things ) with that said then say i drop 120ish can's and have multiple ppl with different spec puters jump back and forth through gate to check if their system lags up and load times change. and if this is done wouldn't this cause abnormal conditions to the system in question itself...
This is a Tricky Topic but would be nice to know I dont wanna get a warning for dropping 30 drones on a quite low sec system gate. even though it can be a valid tactic used to de-cloak .
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