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[Odyssey] Navy Battlecruisers

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Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#501 - 2013-05-20 06:39:59 UTC
Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/tDPzEur.jpg

Cute CCP, real cute Roll


No that isn't cute, that's rather lame.Ugh
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
#502 - 2013-05-20 14:32:04 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • The Navy Battlecruiser prices are a bit too high and seem comparable with Command Ships.

    • Good point, I had CCP Fozzie come to my desk with puppy eyes asking for a price reduction as well. We'll probably decrease overall price by 20-25%.


    Question is, if a Navy battlecruiser is as expensive as a T1 Battleship that will be much better, and they should, then there's no point on having those than as furniture or Queen of our hangars?



    Ah, but they're not. Navy Drake thus far seems to be the superior choice compared to T1 Raven- the Raven has literally nothing going for it. No tank, poor speed, iffy DPS (hard to apply it if you're dead, you know).


    I believe CCP has intended all launcher ships to be more or less snipers. Normal drake is exception due to the resistance bonus. I am not a pvp specialist but sounds that navy drake can do good when you kite / play time. So in other words its designed to lose in pure head on 1 vs 1.

    I realize that this is bit bad reference but well I know that caracal can do insanely good with kiting when its flown by capable pilot. I know Navy Drake can't do the same due to the base speed and so but still it should be able to push lot of damage from distance.

    And yes I know that missiles are not instant damage.. CCP has stated that they will keep adjusting missile systems still. Have faith and remember that CCP has already stated that this is a problem that will be taken care in near future.
    Jureth22
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #503 - 2013-05-22 12:12:20 UTC
    i`ve been playing with em in eft for a while now and it seems like all of them are even and useless.i wouldnt release them with oddysey,unless a major update comes along for them.
    Jerick Ludhowe
    Internet Tuff Guys
    #504 - 2013-05-22 13:23:48 UTC
    Jureth22 wrote:
    i`ve been playing with em in eft for a while now and it seems like all of them are even and useless.i wouldnt release them with oddysey,unless a major update comes along for them.


    The fact that hoards of people think they suck as well as ar op probably means the balance is pretty close to spot on...
    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #505 - 2013-05-22 14:44:31 UTC
    Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
    Jureth22 wrote:
    i`ve been playing with em in eft for a while now and it seems like all of them are even and useless.i wouldnt release them with oddysey,unless a major update comes along for them.


    The fact that hoards of people think they suck as well as ar op probably means the balance is pretty close to spot on...



    People that say that they are OP are just he ones disregarding their cost or showing how they step into the role of the battleships.

    They are not impressive (specially the hurricane) but have too many HP to be BC, since they overstep on attack Battleship levels. But that is moslty because battleshisp themselves are too weak.

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Naomi Knight
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #506 - 2013-05-22 19:59:14 UTC
    btw which dev's idea was this drake? same crap as cnr
    Solhild
    Doomheim
    #507 - 2013-05-24 20:58:23 UTC
    Krell Kroenen wrote:
    Seleucus Ontuas wrote:
    http://i.imgur.com/tDPzEur.jpg

    Cute CCP, real cute Roll


    No that isn't cute, that's rather lame.Ugh


    oh my lordy, shameful (but I can see the funny side)
    Cage Man
    Fusion Enterprises Ltd
    Pandemic Horde
    #508 - 2013-05-25 10:01:56 UTC
    Aglais wrote:
    Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • The Navy Battlecruiser prices are a bit too high and seem comparable with Command Ships.

    • Good point, I had CCP Fozzie come to my desk with puppy eyes asking for a price reduction as well. We'll probably decrease overall price by 20-25%.


    Question is, if a Navy battlecruiser is as expensive as a T1 Battleship that will be much better, and they should, then there's no point on having those than as furniture or Queen of our hangars?



    Ah, but they're not. Navy Drake thus far seems to be the superior choice compared to T1 Raven- the Raven has literally nothing going for it. No tank, poor speed, iffy DPS (hard to apply it if you're dead, you know).


    You should go try them on the test server.. the Navy drake has nothing going for it unless you shooting something other than kinetic missiles.
    The standard drake gets just over 40 dps more with scourge fury with my skills. Current Raven was better than the Drake to run missions, with the extra slot and DPS increase on the Raven the difference is even more noticeable.
    I really don't see a reason to fly the navy drake :( ... sadly... One can only hope the Nighthawk get a proper look at so it may become viable for something.
    Gorgoth24
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #509 - 2013-05-25 22:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorgoth24
    Lots of rage about the lack of cap life in Amarr and how overpriced they are but, tbh, I think it looks perfect.

    Navy BCs should, realistically, fall into the role of eating post-buff T1 and Navy cruisers. And, if HACs get the proposed MWD sig radius bonus per level like inties, then that would make them an obvious counter to those HACs as well. Not to mention that this current setup would also perform admirably against current AHAC and T3 setups that rely on sig radius for tank.

    The range of the navy drake also provides counter to the incredibly strong attack BCs atm as well

    This makes them both extremely strong solo/small gang ships with all their flexibility and incredibly useful fleet ships when it comes to counters.

    And realistic on-grid fleet boosters while fulfilling their normal combat role if off-grid boosting ever gets nerfed

    Prices can be tweaked if they end up being underused, but I'm wholeheartedly for what they currently represent (on paper, at least).


    +1 To the balance team for making a these ships fit into an interesting role without making them, in their nature, just a power creep


    EDIT: I think the big thing missed by most players when evaluating these new ships is comparing them to current combat cruisers. They're not intended to be better versions at the same role but more versatile versions in a different role. I don't see a lot of people realizing the counter-possibilities the tracking bonuses represent
    John Ratcliffe
    Tradors'R'us
    IChooseYou Alliance
    #510 - 2013-05-26 07:54:45 UTC
    Too much focus on how these hulls will behave in PVP - it's not the be all and end all. I'm sure the Navy Drake/Fleet Hurricane will be fine for PVE.

    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
    Jerick Ludhowe
    Internet Tuff Guys
    #511 - 2013-05-26 11:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
    Jureth22 wrote:
    i`ve been playing with em in eft for a while now and it seems like all of them are even and useless.i wouldnt release them with oddysey,unless a major update comes along for them.


    The fact that hoards of people think they suck as well as ar op probably means the balance is pretty close to spot on...



    People that say that they are OP are just he ones disregarding their cost or showing how they step into the role of the battleships.

    They are not impressive (specially the hurricane) but have too many HP to be BC, since they overstep on attack Battleship levels. But that is moslty because battleshisp themselves are too weak.


    they follow the progression of navy ships just like every other navy ship... Essentially +50% ehp and another slot.

    As for their tank being too high... BS still have more ehp and more dps, and more range, and more cap, and more drones.... I really don't understand the whole argument of "NAVY BC GOING TO REPLACE BS" crap, it simply does not make sense.
    CCP Ytterbium
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #512 - 2013-05-27 12:13:03 UTC
    Quick update to make sure everyone is on the same page:

    • Drake Navy Issue now has 900 powergrid
    • Hurricane Fleet Issue now has 1350 powergrid


    LP Store requirements have been reduced to:

    • Regular corporation LP stores, blueprint offer: 200,000 LPs plus 100 million ISK for 1 run blueprint copy (BPC)
    • Regular corporation LP stores, built ship offer: 250,000 LPs plus 1x built tech1 Battlecruiser plus two Cruiser sized Nexus Chips
    • FW Loyalty Point stores, blueprint offer: for 100,000 LPs plus 10m ISK for 1 run BPC
    • FW Loyalty Point Stores, built ship offer: 100,000 LPs plus 1x built tech1 Battlecruiser plus two Cruiser sized Nexus Chips
    Malkshurr
    Alter Ego Inc.
    #513 - 2013-05-27 14:19:14 UTC
    Navy Frigate - racial frigate skill - lvl 2
    Navy Cruiser - racial cruiser skill - lvl 2
    Navy Battleship - racial battleship skill - lvl 2

    Navy Battlecruiser - racial battlecriuser skill - lvl 1

    Why ??
    Jonas Sukarala
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #514 - 2013-05-27 14:43:02 UTC
    CCP

    any particular reason besides having more tank than most the T1 battleships that these have better sensor strength than T1 battleships too?

    'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #515 - 2013-05-27 14:56:24 UTC
    John Ratcliffe wrote:
    Too much focus on how these hulls will behave in PVP - it's not the be all and end all. I'm sure the Navy Drake/Fleet Hurricane will be fine for PVE.



    Balance is irrelevant on PVE. PVE is a subproduct of PVP in this game and all balance should catter to PVP First

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Jonas Sukarala
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #516 - 2013-05-27 15:30:02 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Quick update to make sure everyone is on the same page:

    • Drake Navy Issue now has 900 powergrid
    • Hurricane Fleet Issue now has 1350 powergrid


    LP Store requirements have been reduced to:

    • Regular corporation LP stores, blueprint offer: 200,000 LPs plus 100 million ISK for 1 run blueprint copy (BPC)
    • Regular corporation LP stores, built ship offer: 250,000 LPs plus 1x built tech1 Battlecruiser plus two Cruiser sized Nexus Chips
    • FW Loyalty Point stores, blueprint offer: for 100,000 LPs plus 10m ISK for 1 run BPC
    • FW Loyalty Point Stores, built ship offer: 100,000 LPs plus 1x built tech1 Battlecruiser plus two Cruiser sized Nexus Chips


    But what does that mean??? .....in real terms the price of navy battlecruisers will be??????

    'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

    Jerick Ludhowe
    Internet Tuff Guys
    #517 - 2013-05-27 17:17:46 UTC
    Jonas Sukarala wrote:


    But what does that mean??? .....in real terms the price of navy battlecruisers will be??????


    probably around 150-170m

    Cheaper than command ships by a fair margin.
    Xain deSleena
    420 Enterprises.
    #518 - 2013-05-28 00:57:53 UTC
    The new DNI really has a Caracal under the hood, I checked. Good for hitting frigates I heard...
    Sharwen Anchev
    Lai Dai Counterintelligence
    #519 - 2013-05-28 03:14:21 UTC
    It's funny because the fleet cane is still weaker than pre-nerf hurricane. The powergrid is still very nerfed.
    CCP Ytterbium
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #520 - 2013-05-28 11:47:36 UTC
    Malkshurr wrote:
    Navy Frigate - racial frigate skill - lvl 2
    Navy Cruiser - racial cruiser skill - lvl 2
    Navy Battleship - racial battleship skill - lvl 2

    Navy Battlecruiser - racial battlecriuser skill - lvl 1

    Why ??


    Eeeep, maybe because that slipped through our design checks Oops Good point, I'll change the requirements to 2.


    Sharwen Anchev wrote:
    It's funny because the fleet cane is still weaker than pre-nerf hurricane. The powergrid is still very nerfed.


    Last I checked the pre-nerf Hurricane had 1350 Powergrid. So does the Hurricane Fleet Issue - I'll update the first post so this kind of confusion doesn't happen anymore.