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Orca question: Just how many ships do I need to make it worth while?

Author
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#21 - 2013-05-25 11:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I remember working it out at one point, but I can't remember whether it was pre or post mining barge change. But if your talking about hulks, then it's three (If your fitting for max yield). Your better adding an Orca than a fourth hulk. That should be with max skills but without a mining link.

Ship type does make a difference because of cargo-bay size and unloading times. But as long as your fitting for max yield that shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: Looking back, when I said three... it might be that the third hulk isn't as good as an Orca if your fit for max yield with a maxed skill Orca... But you get the idea roughly. Orcas are useful.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Doc Severide
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-05-25 12:03:28 UTC
MicDeath Titan wrote:
Odella Court wrote:
MicDeath Titan wrote:
Well, see that is the thing I know about the hulk amount, but the problem is that I have none that can fly hulks.
That is why I am at a loss on this one.

??


you do know how % amnts work, right?

I'll put it in a way that sounds cool.
I am taking pre-algebra in a University.
University of Alaska Fairbanks. :D

You think that sounds cool?

Newsflash
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-05-25 12:25:56 UTC
if you have 14 characters mining i hope you get blown out of the space.
MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#24 - 2013-05-25 18:46:41 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
MicDeath Titan wrote:
Odella Court wrote:
MicDeath Titan wrote:
Well, see that is the thing I know about the hulk amount, but the problem is that I have none that can fly hulks.
That is why I am at a loss on this one.

??


you do know how % amnts work, right?

I'll put it in a way that sounds cool.
I am taking pre-algebra in a University.
University of Alaska Fairbanks. :D

Remember that all of these calculations require a mindlink and a max skilled orca. Without a mindlink you are losing massively on the possible yield so I would say that is the most important thing to go for. I'm quite surprised actually that you trained up 14 accounts and did not find out this first hehe. Are you the heir of a baron or something spending money like that? :)

I only spent real money on 4 Accounts. The rest I got with plex.


@Mara Rinn
Thank you, I'll try to make sense of this in a bit.

@Doc Severide
Yes, Yes I do. For several reasons, I am going back to school. I am furthering my education, and am working to better my life, and I meet other people who are in the same boat. I may be math dumb, but that doesn't make me any less of a person than anybody else. ;)
Danni stark
#25 - 2013-05-25 18:50:21 UTC
Slutvana Khorkina wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
two if your orca pilot has a mindlink.
three if not.

if you don't have a mindlink you're a bad person.


If you have 14 mining alts you're a bad person.


i have two, that means i'm still a good person, right?
No Alibi
Sometimes Here
#26 - 2013-05-25 19:14:24 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Digital Messiah wrote:
I believe it is anything over 3? Most of the time it is either 2 hulks + orca or 3 hulks + orca.


With a max-skilled Mining Director with Industrial Command Ships 5 and the Mining Foreman Mindlink, you get a teensy bit more yield and heaps more utility from putting that Mining Director into an Orca rather than a third ship of the the same type as the rest of the fleet.

Until that point, the number is greater than 3 mining ships. Of course we can use maths to figure the number out for every situation, but you need to know what the question is: "how many mining ships do I need in my fleet before it's worth my Mining Director flying an Orca instead of another mining ship?" I'll be generous and substitute "player" for "mining ship" and we can use an invented unit p.

The easy way to find out p is to undock with your orca pilot and miners, check the tooltip display for yield & cycle time of the mining modules, then turn on the Laser Optimization link and check the numbers again. The only number that will change is the cycle time. You then divide the longer cycle time by the shorter cycle time to find the percentage yield with the link active. i.e.: 180 seconds will be reduced to 120 seconds under a "perfect" orca booster, giving you a 150% gain in yield per hour.

So from that percentage you take away 100%, and divide 100 by the remaining number. That is how many mining ships you need in the fleet to justify the Mining Director flying an orca instead of a mining ship.

So if your orca booster gives each ship 133% of base yield per hour, you will need three mining ships in the fleet to justify flying an orca (i.e.: 1 x Orca + 3 x mining ship). If your orca booster gives each ship 120%, you will need five mining ships.

Let's run through that all over again:

  1. Undock with your current mining fleet, with Mining Director in an Orca with the Laser Optimization link turned off
  2. Record the current cycle time for one miner, call this A (e.g.: A=180s, note the unit "s" for seconds)
  3. Turn on the Laser Optimization link
  4. Record the modified cycle time for one miner, call this B (e.g.: B=120s)
  5. Calculate the modified yield as a ratio of the original yield: Y = A/B (e.g.: Y = 180s/120s = 1.5 with no dimension/units)
  6. Now subtract 1 to get the gain over base yield: Yg = Y - 1 (e.g.: Yg = 0.5, still dimensionless)
  7. Now divide 1 mining ship (using our invented unit p) by your number, rounding up to get the number of miners necessary (we'll call that N, for Necessary or Needs): N = 1p/Yg (e.g.: N = 1p/0.5 = 2p)
  8. If you don't have that many miners, have the Mining Director fly a mining ship instead, because you Need N people to justify the Orca instead of a mining ship


And again with a non-perfect Mining Director:

  1. A = 180s
  2. B = 136s
  3. Y = A/B = 180s/136s = 1.324 (I am being needlessly precise at 4 significant digits)
  4. Yg = Y-1 = 0.324
  5. N = 1p/Yg = 1p/0.324 = 3.1p, rounding up to 4p
  6. I would need four players (mining ships) in fleet to justify flying an Orca instead of another of the same mining ship since three mining ships would only produce enough extra yield to compensate for missing 97% (0.324 * 3) of that fourth ship.


Note that using dimensional analysis is a simple engineering trick to help figure out how to get the answer you're looking for, and is why I invented the unit p.

And for the readers who are still lost: A and B represent cycle times (A being original yield, B being Boosted yield), Y represents boosted Yield as a ratio, Yg represents "yield gain as a ratio", N represent "Needs" and p is our unit representing players because I'm in a weird mood and assuming that we are mining in fleets with other players rather than multiboxing and playing with ourselves.

Ouch!Shocked

I fly by the seat of my pants, No wonder my ass is always on fire!

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