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Reminder for the Amarr Empire regarding the Minmatar insurgency in Gallente space.
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Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#21 - 2013-05-23 19:17:05 UTC
I suppose the question is, for whom is message truly intended?

I am not a member of the Amarr Empire but I've yet to speak to an Imperial who wasn't already aware of this.

I am not a member of the Republic, but they tend to have a 'damn the torpedoes' view of these things. They're more about passion and principle than practicality.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#22 - 2013-05-23 19:20:10 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

Remember: each time someone kills a gallentean, average IQ in our cluster rises!


And each time you kill Dia...


Nah, too easy.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#23 - 2013-05-24 00:22:47 UTC
I don't get why people are upset. I'd like to see how people react to reading editorials. Better yet, take a university course in a non-physical science. Most will probably fail on account of being unable to write in opposing viewpoints.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-05-24 03:39:17 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

Remember: each time someone kills a gallentean, average IQ in our cluster rises!


And each time you kill Dia...


Nah, too easy.

Easy, you say?
Have you ever tried?
Oh, be my guest

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Seneca Aurun
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-05-24 04:56:52 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
While this is clearly one of the fringe lunatics, I wouldn't be surprised if the mainstream fedos would start echoing a similar sentiment. If I was of the Republic, I'd be really careful around my "allies" at this point. Wouldn't turn my back, or indeed any capitals or high value assets in their direction.

I don't think it's very popular among them that you Minnies have started figuring out their agenda.


It continues to be a source of amazement to me that the Republic can launch what is, in any sense, an invasion of Federation space, and yet people can still blame the Gallente for being 'poor allies'.

It seems to me it should be the Gallente who should be wary of turning their backs to their Republic 'allies', lest they find a knife in it in the name of 'Tribal Honor'.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-05-24 14:22:18 UTC
I personally continue to be surprised that an alliance still exists between the Federation and the Republic. Combining the battle of Colelie (essentially a "blue-on-blue" attack writ extremely large - I have seen null sec wars start over far smaller things) with the widespread sentiments echoed by the Shakorites. The Republic has given the Federation a pretty large casus belli. That the Federation has not used it and used it swiftly is significant.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#27 - 2013-05-24 19:26:23 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Shakorites



Could you clarify what you mean?
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-05-24 19:52:55 UTC
Supporters of Maleatu Shakor's aggressive policies towards the Federation.

There's a lot of crazy terminology being thrown around this issue. Many supporters of the Republic's attack on the Federation Navy are trying to make this into a Minmatar issue, but it's really more of a political issue - a Republic and Federation issue. But there are folks in the Republic who oppose the attack, so I didn't want to paint them with the same brush. Hence, Shakorites.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#29 - 2013-05-24 20:03:13 UTC
Aurora Fatalis wrote:

Like I will, if those calling me delusional can point to a senator who is more fond of peace than of his position in senate. If they can show me that I was hallucinating during the Minmatar attack, the friendly fire of their militia, and the reactions of the Gallentean public.


I wouldn't call you delusional. It's painfully true that the Battle in Colelie had far reaching effects beyond the battlefield.

However, I would point out that most Politicians, no matter where in the cluster that they are from, have to answer to those who put them in their position for their decisions. That applies whether it's a Senator answering to Voters, a CEO answering to the Shareholders, a Noble answering to a Heir or a Chieftain answering to his people.

To specifically address the example of the Senator however, self interest would definitely come into play, but not in the way you are thinking. It's simply a case of Demographics.

When one in every three Federal voters have roots in Matari Space, it's not in their personal best interests to risk losing their position by alienating such a large voting block by completely turning their backs on the Republic.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#30 - 2013-05-24 20:23:55 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Supporters of Maleatu Shakor's aggressive policies towards the Federation.

There's a lot of crazy terminology being thrown around this issue. Many supporters of the Republic's attack on the Federation Navy are trying to make this into a Minmatar issue, but it's really more of a political issue - a Republic and Federation issue. But there are folks in the Republic who oppose the attack, so I didn't want to paint them with the same brush. Hence, Shakorites.


Thank you for the clarification. I was confused in part because there are many of us who have expressed our displeasure/frustration with the Federation who don't support what happened at Colelie.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-05-24 21:03:14 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
I was confused in part because there are many of us who have expressed our displeasure/frustration with the Federation who don't support what happened at Colelie.


Well, there's support and then there's support. You might not support - as in agree with - the decision to attack, but as a member of Electus Matari you did support - that is open fire on the Federation Navy - it.

That's neither here nor there, especially in this thread. I would welcome the chance to discuss this with you in person sometime, though. As a former member of Electus Matari, I have particularly strong feelings about that alliance's involvement in the battle, and I have so far been unable to elicit an adequate response to the various questions I've posed. Considering the nature of the IGS and how easily reasonable discussion can become overshadowed with pure partisan feck, it's not surprising.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#32 - 2013-05-24 21:35:56 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
I was confused in part because there are many of us who have expressed our displeasure/frustration with the Federation who don't support what happened at Colelie.


Well, there's support and then there's support. You might not support - as in agree with - the decision to attack, but as a member of Electus Matari you did support - that is open fire on the Federation Navy - it.

That's neither here nor there, especially in this thread. I would welcome the chance to discuss this with you in person sometime, though. As a former member of Electus Matari, I have particularly strong feelings about that alliance's involvement in the battle, and I have so far been unable to elicit an adequate response to the various questions I've posed. Considering the nature of the IGS and how easily reasonable discussion can become overshadowed with pure partisan feck, it's not surprising.



Though I was indeed there that day, I am not sure I would be the best person to talk to regarding Electus Matari's involvement, especially since I was not yet officially a part of Electus Matari, though I did indeed fly with them and under their command during the actions of that day. At most, I could only relate my personal reasons for my own actions that day and why I chose to stay and follow the orders I received.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-05-24 21:44:41 UTC
Well, you are the only Electus Matari member to acknowledge my questions, so I can say there simply isn't anyone more qualified on my list...

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#34 - 2013-05-25 01:14:17 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

Remember: each time someone kills a gallentean, average IQ in our cluster rises!


And each time you kill Dia...


Nah, too easy.

Easy, you say?
Have you ever tried?
Oh, be my guest


*woosh*

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#35 - 2013-05-25 01:38:39 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
I personally continue to be surprised that an alliance still exists between the Federation and the Republic. Combining the battle of Colelie (essentially a "blue-on-blue" attack writ extremely large - I have seen null sec wars start over far smaller things) with the widespread sentiments echoed by the Shakorites. The Republic has given the Federation a pretty large casus belli. That the Federation has not used it and used it swiftly is significant.


That's because empire politics are not nullsec game of toy soldiers.

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.
Kim Ji-Young
Ji Young Kim Bap
#36 - 2013-05-25 03:07:20 UTC
Thumbs up this post if you feel that the author should have said something about the Caldari too just so she could squeeze all four races into the one thread title.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#37 - 2013-05-25 07:15:35 UTC
Aurora Fatalis wrote:
The current situation is salvageable, and a common enemy at this time is likely to help strengthen the Gallente-Minmatar bond back to what it was. However, if the Minmatar launch another strike in Gallente space, no senator will risk the approval of the electorate by aiding the Minmatar, should the Amarr happen to launch a reclamation campaign while the Minmatar fleet is engaged elsewhere..


Ok, one question: Why would we want to do this?

Yes, I'm serious: Why? What would be the point?

The way I see it, all the Matari souls that could be saved already have been. When the Empress emancipated all of the 9th generation those who are destined for God's Kingdom became full Amarrian citizens and all the lost causes took off to join all the other lost causes back in the Republic. If anyone born there still wants to be saved our door is always open.

Point being that there is really nothing to be gained except getting our planets back (how quickly the Republic likes to forget that all but three of their systems were originally part of the Amarr Empire) but even then, what do we do with all the people living there? Enslave them? We tried that - it didn't work. Exterminate them? Then we'd be no better than they are.

Yes, many Amarr still seem to live in the past, still trying to dream of recapturing ancient glory. The rest of us - those who think forward instead of backward - understand that we can't Reclaim the galaxy by force, nor should we want to. The Reclaiming was never about planets, slaves or resources. Those were just a means to an end, though to the Amarr of old it became an end to itself and that is why God punished us with the shame of being stomped on by the Jovians.

The goal, the real Reclaiming, has always been about the human soul. The spreading of our Faith throughout New Eden. We don't need ships, fleets or soldiers for that. We can do it quite peacefully, in fact, given time and patience. I believe that someday all those souls who are worthy will someday come to stand beside us of their own free will.

As for the rest... well, screw 'em. Let them rot in their mud huts for all eternity. It may seem strange to see Faith and pragmatism in the same vein, but there it is.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Aurora Fatalis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-05-25 16:56:47 UTC
Apparently, I should clear something up; When I have referred to "the Minmatar", I am referring to the Republic, and specifically, those in the Republic with the authority to send another strike force. That does not, however, imply that I wish for the banishment of every Minmatar citizen of the Federation.

Anslo wrote:
And we will stop calling you delusional if you can point to evidence that the Minmatar would attempt to invade the Federation based on a single (admittedly horrible) event despite multiple, more positive events, occurring between our people.


Note that I not once referred to an "Invasion" - you read too much into my words. Strike forces are the equivalents of emotional outbursts, but full-scale invasions require commitment and planning, more than enough time for the republicans to cool their heads. Now, imagine if you had said the above after the first time they brought a strike force into Federation space. You know, the time they were let go despite their transgression. Then they launched another strike force - this time consisting of dreadnaughts - killing thousands of people who had nothing to do with Midular's death. Imagine how you'd look.

You should also note that this all has happened without so much as an apology from those who ordered the strike - the same people who still govern the Republic and dictate their policies. Such an apology would have been some evidence that these people want peace, but as it stands, only actions of war have been ordered. They could also have requested the militia who fights on their behalf stop firing on allied forced, but they have not.

Referring to "positive events", presumably with personal friends among the Minmatar, changes nothing - it was not our personal friends that attacked, it was the elder council.

There's your evidence.

Katarina Musana wrote:
I was confused in part because there are many of us who have expressed our displeasure/frustration with the Federation who don't support what happened at Colelie.

Then where are you? Where are your voices?

Not that I doubt you exist, but if there were that many of you, you would have organized a protest to let your elders know your opinions. They spoke on behalf of the Minmatar Republic, and if the citizens find they do not wish such messages spoken on their behalf, I suggest they work to replace those elders.

Katran Luftschreck wrote:

Ok, one question: Why would we want to do this?

I believe you yourself answered your question when you said this:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:

Yes, many Amarr still seem to live in the past

Perhaps especially those who are in power, wouldn't you say?

If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#39 - 2013-05-26 03:06:35 UTC
Aurora Fatalis wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
I was confused in part because there are many of us who have expressed our displeasure/frustration with the Federation who don't support what happened at Colelie.

Then where are you? Where are your voices?

Not that I doubt you exist, but if there were that many of you, you would have organized a protest to let your elders know your opinions. They spoke on behalf of the Minmatar Republic, and if the citizens find they do not wish such messages spoken on their behalf, I suggest they work to replace those elders.



I would remind you that our culture functions differently than yours, but we have been making ourselves heard. Whether or not we will be listened to, by both the Federation and the Tribal Council, remains to be seen. I have more faith in the Tribal Council listening than in the Federation listening, though.
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