Intergalactic Summit

Jumping fleets into foreign space on two separate occasions is a statement of a bit more than displeasure, it's also not justified.

You don't get to make the law because someone else won't act in their house to your whims.

Seems you need to go back to school and learn to read. I stated very clearly that I don't consider the fleet's incursion into Federation space to be justified, nor does anyone I know.

In fact, if you look at the post I made which you quoted, you very clearly left out a very important part of the post.



Calling the incident justified and stating that our displeasure, even anger, with the Federation is justified are two entirely separate things.

Wrong. Making a wrong decision when angered does not invalidate the anger. Neither does the anger justify the wrong decision. The justification of the two are separate from each other. It's even possible, though perhaps unlikely, to make a justifiable decision while unjustifiably angry.

We are justifiably angry/frustrated with the Federationi. This has no bearing on the bearing on the justification or lack thereof in regards to Colelie.




You don't even realize what our original displeasure is.



There's no point in arguing this with you because you clearly don't even understand or know what all has been going on for a long time now.



Your example of Blaque is actually a possibility, though I wouldn't have any idea how to go about discovering if that were the actually the case. But, this is why I have stated that I will only consider Colelie justifiable if the Tribal Council brings forth some pretty damning evidence to justify their decision.



It really isn't, because our displeasure is not a localized incident, and goes far beyond the events of colelie or even the way the Federation handled things in regards to the shooting of Midular and others of our people.

I don't know about you guys, but where I come from "It is ok to be angry; it is not ok to scream and hit" is stuff we teach two-year-olds. That some of you have not learned separate between emotion and action yet is... interesting.

It is quite possible to at the same time think Republic's anger has a good reason, and to think that what happened in Colelie was crossing the line. You do not need to say we are wrong in being angry to say we were wrong in Colelie.

Elsebeth

You also teach a two year old that it's not ok to throw a tantrum when they don't get something their way.

Where I come from "it is not ok to be angry, but it is understandable".

Perhaps if “they” meaning the Tribals acted less like petulant children your point would be relevant.

The long and short of it is that "they" attacked those "they" called ally, killing many of their people.

That won’t be forgotten or forgiven.

Your analogy doesn't hold up for one primary reason. You're comparing an example of a pattern with a single event. If anything, the pattern in the "relationship" between the Federation and the Republic goes the other way, though instead of "direct physical abuse" it would be psychological/emotional abuse.


As for your assessment of my statements, I have made it quite clear that I currently do not see Colelie as being justified. This view is unlikely to change unless the Tribal Council comes forth with a damn good explanation and particularly damning evidence to support the explanation.

Our anger and frustration with how the Federation has treated us over the years, however, is justified, and is in no way limited to the issue of how the Federation has handled the situation regarding the shooter.

It's quite simple. There's often more to people than the hats they wear, and some of us have the capacity to take the person as we find them.

If I take your example of James, he's someone that misses home and I have a feeling he suspects he made the wrong decision in leaving the Federation. I really hope he comes back to us, and when he does I'll welcome him.

Then there's you, Mr Soter. You claim to be a Federation loyalist, and assure everyone that you wear the "right" hat. Underneath that veneer though, I suspect there's something quite ugly lurking.

It's hard to describe without spending time in the field.

Most joint-ops are classified but generally, having worked with Gallente it's like being the hired help. You are told "go here, cover this gate" without any knowledge of the overall operation. You are a gun, period. And if Gallente personnel are in danger, you cover their retreat. You get to escape only when they cyno out. Often I found myself wondering "Why am I putting up with this?" but you do it, because in the end you're hurting slavers and other galactic pieces of schit.

Politics wise you'll have to ask someone else, but I'm sure their experience is similar.

Does it justify Coleile? No.

But just speaking for myself

1. I am certain the Ray of Matar was assassinated by elements of the Federation govt.
2. I am certain hundreds of Republic and Gallente citizens were killed by elements of the Federation govt.
3. I am certain the lone suspect is being protected from a proper investigation by elements of the Federation govt.
4. I am certain the lone suspect will be killed in prison to silence him.
5. I am certain both Roden and Shakor know all of the above

Does THAT justify Coleile? No but....

We still don't know what exactly the Coleile operation was. Whether it was a warning, a jailbreak gone awry, a ceremonial battle, an ultimatum.

We don't bloody know.

The tribal council is like your parliament, these are sober, strategic individuals with alot of political finesse. If they approved it then we are all missing critical information regarding the why and wherefor.

I personally would not have approved it, but I am no politician or tactician, I don't know all the classified information. And therefor I am hesitant to condemn the operation as well, knowing almost nothing of its reasons.