EVE General Discussion

Missions, incursions, manufacturing ect.

industry

markets (though you'd be hard pressed to ever get much market play out of hisec, but you could still get MORE if there was more people doing stuff in nullsec)

Null is so empty because there's very little incentive for money generation to take place there, and every time people figure out a way to make great money, CCP nerfs it into the ground under false pretenses.

Lets take a look at forsaken hubs; the anomalies that everyone currently runs because they offer by far the best isk/hr. Currently, a naga with t2 guns can pull in ~75-80 mil isk/hr, a vindicator 150+/hr, and (mostly) afk ishtars can make ~60m/hr. This is because, as it currently stands, forsaken hubs do not contain any other ship types but battleships, battlecruisers, and dire cruisers. This means that large guns can be used, as they do not have trouble tracking these.

CCP has said that there is too little risk in these anomalies, so they are adding NPCs that web and scram. Now I would like to preface this that ratters are killed - a lot - in single ship setups, quite often by solo bombers roaming space, because, as I said before, these ships are using large guns, which have cannot track frigates well enough to kill them. So CCP is adding frigates as the source of webbing/scrams.

Well, this has a few effects. Firstly, this means that newer players will now have a much harder time of generating income, as you can no longer just fit out a ship with large guns; you HAVE to have a way to deal with ship sizes from frigates -> battleships now. So newer players will be relegated to excited money generation opportunities like salvaging and begging, which I'm sure will give strong retention numbers. OR they can goto lowsec or highsec and run faction warfare missions in a stealth bomber that takes far less time to train into and make a LOT more money with almost no risk. More established players (read: vets and multiboxers) will have no problem adapting to these changes. They will simply refit their ships and be back at it, making the same income as before.

However, this has dire adverse effects on people looking to solo roam with cloaking ships or others: these targets are now equipped for taking out frigates as quickly as possible. Considering ships like bombers have virtually no tank, a large pool of targets has now been moved out of their reach. I'm not so sure that CCP wishes to make hubs more dangerous, but instead is looking to cull the current methods of making money.

So the overall effect is:
-Newer players move to high/lowsec as they can make more money there
-Older players move a few things around and continue to make nearly the same money as before
-Solo pvpers now not only have less targets due to newer players leaving, but must be suicidal to engage those that remain

If CCP really wanted to make nullsec ratting more dangerous, they would change the current hubs to have web/scramming battleships. This would mean that newer players could still generate a decent income, but at a vastly higher risk than it currently stands. It also means that vets/established players will not be able to chew through the scramming ships in a few seconds, and will not be outfitted to pop bombers in seconds. It's a win-win situation for both those who wish to actually make money in nullsec, AND those that want to engage them in pvp.

This is all of course ignoring the fact that sov in null isn't (usually) handed to you, especially in the best parts of it. Thousands and thousands of man hours were spent grinding sov in a terrible system for this income generation to take place. Why shouldn't nullsec be far more lucrative that high sec when so much effort has to go into taking and holding that space? Not to mention the logistics that go into keep hundreds of POS fueled throughout the year.

If you want more people in nullsec, something has to be done about the lack of disparity between high and nullsec income. The ice/mining changes are a step in the right direction, but it still stands that, because ice anomalies are going to be in predicable systems, they will be incredibly dangerous. I know myself and others plan on having cyno V alts cloak camping them 24/7. It won't be difficult to catch mining fleets, especially since you can see the anomalies the moment you enter a system now.

The exploration changes don't really add much in the way of nullsec income generation either, as a lot people are already scanning for plexes constantly, and will now run these sites as well. It isn't uncommon to spend hours scanning systems without finding anything, and the rush of more people scanning is only going to make it worse. Not to mention that it's mostly uninteresting anyway, and the whole 'explore with a friend' thing means one person scanning while the other sits around waiting to click some cans every 20-30 minutes if they're lucky.

Go to lowsec instead.

Yeah I was surprised as well, "blasted' through Nullsec and wouldn't you know it! I saw the Goons hanging out at their favorite local! "Considering they're a CIA agency I'm not authorized to speak more into this" And of all things, they give me a Seers giftcard and a hug! Probably the best bunch of people I've ever seen ever!

Thanks Goonswarm!

Yeah, kill idiots in EC is always fun but for about 30min when you see one right now.

Very well said, I'm amazed at just how little attention this issue is getting.

The Devs are going to be severely nerfing the motivation for people to un-dock in null all in the interest of "increasing risk"

Unfortunately their shortsightedness is preventing them from seeing that these changes are going to result in less ship destruction not more.

What they should be doing is changing other anomalies to be more like Forsaken hubs and boosting the bounties on the ones that have smaller ships in them. Honestly you'd see a hell of a lot more activity if people had a reason to run all those little low end anomalies that no one bothers with because they're nothing but frigates and generate jack all for income.

As it stands now a fully upgraded system supports 2-4 ratters max compared to how many mission runners High sec system can support? Is it any wonder that so many earn their isk in high sec?

It is a short sighted change, forsaken hubs were damn near the last bastions of good isk generation for null sec grunts. They are buffing sanctums but most null sec systems can't upgrade to sanctums anymore and the systems that can are easily camped.

But null sec doesn't exist in a vacuum , rather than making forsaken hubs slightly more dangerous, it will simply result in even fewer people using null anoms to make is, more people shifting to low sec (and the new tag ratting) and high sec for isk. The low sec ratting is good, that can result in fights, but people going from null to high means safer isk making and fewer ships dying.

Hopefully this will become apparent to ccp after odyssey but by then the damage will have been done. I predict longer lines to get into incursion fleets lol.

Be wery, wery quiet.... we're hunting wabbits....

You can earn more in FW using a frig with warp stabs in lowsec than mining or missioning if you are an LP prostitue(depending on the market).

You must be anal retentive and enjoy watching 20 minute timers though.

But FW peeps like showing off their 10 billion isk wallet for the past week.

Of course if someone warps in on your site, then you have to leave, but at certain hours of the night, you can just LP whore away. Most of the fighting actually happens between alliance members pissed that someone else is going to share their LP in their site.

I suppose its easy to get burned out on it, but you should just hold up something else as profitable as missioning and mining.

FW LP prostitution is a good example of something that is both dangerous and profitable... Well as dangerous as losing your pod and frig, but thats about it.