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Proposed fix to "cloaky camping"

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Myth Widowmaker
Placid Tactical Salt Distribution
Ignore This.
#1 - 2013-05-21 19:17:46 UTC
Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?

Makes me wonder how much of that is actually being used for active players...not just hundreds *if not thousands* of players who are afk either in station or in space.

So...here is my proposed solution.

After 15 mins of inactivity a window pops up in a random place on the screen. *random every time to prevent botters*

A notification that says "Are you afk? Yes, No?" or something creative to that effect where the player has to click "NO".

If the player doesn't click "NO" a 15 min timer pops up and after that 15 minute timer expires they get logged off.

I bet if CCP was having any server issues due to thousands of players being AFK. This would not only help *not totally fix* with afk cloaky campers but CCP will save money because the server load would be reduced due to less power needed to run the server for "X amount of afk players"

My 2 isk.

Myth
Mr Flipao
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-05-21 19:34:26 UTC
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm sick of AFK cloakers.

Sadly, said cloakers belong to an already well established part of the gameplay, so most likely CCP won't give a dong. :(
Scooter McCabe
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-05-22 00:54:46 UTC
Myth Widowmaker wrote:
Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?

Tears, tears, tears *proposes game chance the specifically benefits me the cry baby* Tears, tears, tears...

Myth


Fixed that for you.
Master PewPew
Corporation 98735482
#4 - 2013-05-22 02:35:01 UTC
Scooter McCabe wrote:
Myth Widowmaker wrote:
Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?

Tears, tears, tears *proposes *a game *change the specifically benefits me*, the cry baby* Tears, tears, tears...

Myth


Fixed that for you.





Fixed that for you!

I agree with OP...it isn't just Null sec cloaky campers that this will effect. Ever try to get into Jita on a crowded day? 90% of Jita is afk...just sayin bro....

Oh...BTW...Scooter...do you even lift bro?
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#5 - 2013-05-22 04:21:08 UTC
Show me on the doll where the bad AFK person touched you.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
dark heartt
#6 - 2013-05-22 07:47:36 UTC
Can someone please explain to me how an AFK Cloaker *actually* affects you? I realise that you may not want to take the risk and perform activities in system when they are there, but surely you could move to a system nearby?

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#7 - 2013-05-22 09:46:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
Don't you just love nerf AFK cloaking threads. This one has a better hook than most though in that it attempts to appeal directly to CCP's accounts department.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#8 - 2013-05-22 10:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
This is not a "fix to AFK cloakers" because "AFK cloakers" are not a problem.

Cloaked ships are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone while cloaked, afk players are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone too

They are a double none-threat

So what is the issue here, mate? Are your bots not working because they're programmed to run if local changes?
DSpite Culhach
#9 - 2013-05-22 12:44:10 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
This is not a "fix to AFK cloakers" because "AFK cloakers" are not a problem.

Cloaked ships are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone while cloaked, afk players are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone too

They are a double none-threat

So what is the issue here, mate? Are your bots not working because they're programmed to run if local changes?


I setup a program to take screenshots every 30 seconds and use it to monitor activity of players I have tagged in People and Places and coordinate that with players going in and out of local.

I don't really swing either way at the moment, but I do find it strange that in just about every SciFi system we know of, cloaks usually have massive limitations on how they can be used, yet EVE has none. Activate and just run it forever. I can imagine how boring movies would be if infinite use cloaks were available to everyone.

That said, I would probably prefer if some minimal player interaction was needed to keep the cloak up for extended periods, as long as it could not be automated.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-05-22 15:33:25 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
This is not a "fix to AFK cloakers" because "AFK cloakers" are not a problem.

Cloaked ships are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone while cloaked, afk players are literally incapable of doing anything to anyone too

They are a double none-threat

So what is the issue here, mate? Are your bots not working because they're programmed to run if local changes?


I setup a program to take screenshots every 30 seconds and use it to monitor activity of players I have tagged in People and Places and coordinate that with players going in and out of local.

I don't really swing either way at the moment, but I do find it strange that in just about every SciFi system we know of, cloaks usually have massive limitations on how they can be used, yet EVE has none. Activate and just run it forever. I can imagine how boring movies would be if infinite use cloaks were available to everyone.

That said, I would probably prefer if some minimal player interaction was needed to keep the cloak up for extended periods, as long as it could not be automated.

Obviously you aren't familiar with just how vicious the sensor and speed penalties on cloaks are. (Or how hard recal delay hits you, for that matter.)

Besides, running around breaking cloaking willy-nilly would have some rather undesired effects on the WH metagame.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2013-05-23 10:44:00 UTC
Fifteen to sixty minute user selectable timeout with a 60s pop-up (location is irrelevant, bots are more than capable of window ident), but only in stations .. people in space must be assumed active no matter what.

If you want to get rid of cloakers, then come up with ways for us players to hunt the bastards down, not for them to be arbitrarily removed from game.

Example AFK-C solution:
Space equivalent to sonar (LADAR?) buoys, launched from Core probe launchers with the effect of increasing probability of scanning down a cloaked vessel (without actually decloaking it).
Should be possible to add signature to ships under cloak, just make them unprobable by default (think old T3's) and then increasing sig using buoys to a point where it is possible but very hard to pin-point them .. if it truly is AFK then the hunting party eventually decloaks him by proximity, if he is not then he is not covered by the issue and thus in need of a solution.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2013-05-23 13:35:49 UTC
Myth Widowmaker wrote:
Ever wonder how much power/IRL money is used in running those servers at CCP?

Makes me wonder how much of that is actually being used for active players...not just hundreds *if not thousands* of players who are afk either in station or in space.

So...here is my proposed solution.

After 15 mins of inactivity a window pops up in a random place on the screen. *random every time to prevent botters*

A notification that says "Are you afk? Yes, No?" or something creative to that effect where the player has to click "NO".

If the player doesn't click "NO" a 15 min timer pops up and after that 15 minute timer expires they get logged off.

I bet if CCP was having any server issues due to thousands of players being AFK. This would not only help *not totally fix* with afk cloaky campers but CCP will save money because the server load would be reduced due to less power needed to run the server for "X amount of afk players"

My 2 isk.

Myth
Just about everything in that OP was a Myth.

For a solution, there needs to be a problem. AFK player server load isn't one and neither is AFK cloaking.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-23 20:44:41 UTC
All the willy nilly here.

AFK cloakers are not a problem because they're AFK.

The problem is that it's a schroedingers cloaker, the cloaky may or may not be AFK you never know, but if you don't act like he is behind his keyboard (even if het might well be AFK going to the pub, having a good time with his girlfriend or just sleeping) you ARE going to lose your ship sooner rather then later.

And there's the imbalance, when I play eve, I'm behind my keyboard. The cloaker might as well not be behind the keyboard 90% of the time, I still have to act as if he is active, because I never know when he IS going to be active.

So, even when not behind the keyboard the cloaker is effecting my gameplay directly. I don't mind cloakers effecting my gameplay but please let them be behind the keyboard when they effect my gameplay, just like me when I'm playing.

Then we have balance.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#14 - 2013-05-24 14:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Sjugar wrote:
All the willy nilly here.

AFK cloakers are not a problem because they're AFK.

The problem is that it's a schroedingers cloaker, the cloaky may or may not be AFK you never know, but if you don't act like he is behind his keyboard (even if het might well be AFK going to the pub, having a good time with his girlfriend or just sleeping) you ARE going to lose your ship sooner rather then later.

And there's the imbalance, when I play eve, I'm behind my keyboard. The cloaker might as well not be behind the keyboard 90% of the time, I still have to act as if he is active, because I never know when he IS going to be active.

So, even when not behind the keyboard the cloaker is effecting my gameplay directly. I don't mind cloakers effecting my gameplay but please let them be behind the keyboard when they effect my gameplay, just like me when I'm playing.

Then we have balance.
What relevance does them being at the keyboard have? People should be allowed to play as and when they like. Plus as they are AFK and not actually playing, the one that's actually affecting your game play is you. It's your actions alone that keeps you docked or pos'ed up. No one cloaked and maybe AFK can stop you docking, undocking, moving systems, activating modules etc.etc.

But that's not really the issue you have here. The real issue you have is with another game mechanic.

Answer me this. While they are cloaked and maybe AFK, which mechanic are they using to interact with you?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-24 17:27:47 UTC
Mag's wrote:


But that's not really the issue you have here. The real issue you have is with another game mechanic.

Answer me this. While they are cloaked and maybe AFK, which mechanic are they using to interact with you?


Wait wait, I know this one!!!

I'll take The Problem is Local Chat for 500.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#16 - 2013-05-24 19:30:04 UTC

There are two problems related to "afk cloakers", but none of them are a problem with an afk cloaker.

Problem 1, Bridges:
In the current incarnation, anyone with a BO BS or Titan can bridge in a (pragmatically) unscoutable force directly on top of you. The ability of a cloaker to almost instantly cyno in these overwhelming forces makes assessing the threat level impossible, which really screws up a lot of standard options for combating hostile cloakers. (Note: Bridges aren't all bad, but they are mostly OP in their current incarnation).

Problem 2, Local Chat being an omniscient intel tool:
Since you can identify everyone in local, you can instantly identify when there is a hostile in system. The whole risk vs reward system is out of whack because people can, and do, get safe the instant local gains even an iota of risk. In EvE, you should always operate under the premise that "something wicked this way comes", and AFK cloaking is currently the ONLY means to re-introduce risk back into the system. (This is why people afk cloak).

Both of these are legitimate issues... AFK cloaking is NOT!
Sayf ulMulk
Royal Starlancers
#17 - 2013-05-26 14:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sayf ulMulk
There is no way in current game mechanic to save someone from afk cloaker that gets active and opens cyno.

To minimize the effect of cloakers:

*You would need to have active fleet all the time 24/7.
*You would need to fly pvp setups all the time.
*If cyno opens evryone would need to warp immidiately to attacked ship.

Nothink from these three points above will happen. Running fleets 24/7 and mainly work in pvp setups is exhausting and can be done for a day but not for week. The afk cloaker that becomes active risks only 30 mil. While the target dies almost immidiately before even first response arrives. When the response fleet arrives the attackers are on their marry way out of the system.

This leads to extreme exhaustion on the side of defenders while the cyno pílot didnt need to put any efffort at all.

Therefore i agree with the proposition or alternatively using fuel for the cloaking module or mechanism that would allow to uncloak ship if effort is put into it.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-05-26 20:00:03 UTC
AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers.

If you are worried about cloakers, move systems or be ready to PVP at all times.

In other words if there would be no local you would not be worried about afk cloakers at all.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2013-05-26 20:34:02 UTC
So, in short:

Remove freighters
Remove hauling
Remove repairing structures
Remove shooting structures
Remove station trading
Remove market focussed characters
Remove mining
Remove camping
Remove scouting
Remove hiding
Remove waiting

Roll
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2013-05-27 13:51:22 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
AFK cloaking is not an issue. Wormhole space does not have local and no-one is complaining about AFK cloakers. ...

Invalid argument.

You cannot jump into a worm and popping cynos is one of the principal functions as well as threat posed by cloakers .. ie. the lack of local has nothing to do with it.
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