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Separate the four empires with low security space.

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Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#521 - 2013-05-23 21:35:06 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
stuffs


freighters take a while to get anywhere and they cannot cloak. it would become impractical to use them for trading between empires. The rewards for trading in another empire would be insignificant because of jump freighters and cyno alts.

besides from kill board padding and raising the entry level for inter-empire trading (but not the rewards), i dnt see what this change would do.

What do you mean the rewards will not be raised? Think about that for a second, less trade means less supply.
Prices go up, you make more isk for less time put in.

You also are forgetting that jump freighters aren't going to be so cheap to run after odyssey and freighters can use wormholes and cloaked industrials are still viable.

If JFs were jumping back and forth between the empires at rates similar to how freighters move now, then you would probably see a lot of traps set up to kill those JFs. Not to mention you can store billions of isk in loot inside a viator. A freighter can store twice as much as a JF and if you have a wormhole with a hisec static you can easily use that as a route around low sec.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#522 - 2013-05-23 21:42:31 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Did anyone ever consider someone's area of operation is the whole hisec at a time?


Well if this alleged person does operate in all of highsec at once then hopefully they're using more than one account. They would then not be significantly affected by this change.

And if this really was an arguement then it would be similar to a little sh*t of a kid hogging all of the toys because "he needs them all and he's going to play with that one next.".

And if anyone is able to utilize all of high sec with one character then that needs nerfing.



I do live and manufacture in gallente.
I do mine in gallente and amarr.
I do run missions in gallente and minmatar.
I do trade in all four.

What have I missed?


There are people that do not belong to any faction and thus are allowed and legal everywhere. When real world countries are at war, they usually have safe neutral routes anyway.
Someone suggested a softer version with long route through a neighbouring empire to get to the other side, this makes sense for me.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#523 - 2013-05-23 21:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Shade Alidiana wrote:



I do live and manufacture in gallente.
I do mine in gallente and amarr.
I do run missions in gallente and minmatar.
I do trade in all four.

What have I missed?


There are people that do not belong to any faction and thus are allowed and legal everywhere. When real world countries are at war, they usually have safe neutral routes anyway.
Someone suggested a softer version with long route through a neighbouring empire to get to the other side, this makes sense for me.


How hard is it to own two ravens in each empire if you seriously need to run multiple mission types? (Which you don't) Not to mention if you just have a friend scout you in a frigate you can just move the one ship!
Also retrievers aren't very expensive.
Also I have outlined safe methods of crossing low sec so you can still trade, but make higher profits. Use a cloaked ship and move small things, buy a JF, scan a empire to empire or c1 wormhole. It isn't hard.

Also wtf are you talking about neutral routes in war? That is utter nonsense. In WWI do you think crossing into Germany was just trivial for the swiss? If that was the case why did the Germans starve?
In the Korean War how easy was it for neutral countries to dock freighters in korea? Maybe you could get in if your some kind of diplomat but otherwise what your talking about is pure BS.
Also the long route version is the current status quo, and nobody uses the short route because they can't do it afk.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#524 - 2013-05-24 04:37:29 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:

freighters take a while to get anywhere and they cannot cloak. it would become impractical to use them for trading between empires. The rewards for trading in another empire would be insignificant because of jump freighters and cyno alts.

besides from kill board padding and raising the entry level for inter-empire trading (but not the rewards), i dnt see what this change would do.

Isotopes will become more expensive, thus increasing cost to transport with JFs. Also this will put more JFs at risk. Either they get caught more often (with increased jumps into populated systems) or they properly scout and don't make the jump. Thus increasing demand at the destination. Trade reward significance increased.
Daichi Yamato wrote:
i'd expect the effects on markets to be more trivial than u'd expect.

as for escortng freighters through low sec, u'd need friends that would do it for a very small payment. most of the time it will be either more worthwhile for them to do something else, ur u'd have to pay them so much it wouldn't be worth ur while running the gauntlet.

and when ppl say it promotes PvP and such and such a survey says most ppl like PvP, so would making NPC corps deccable and forcing ppl to stay in corp during the duration of a dec. in fact, i'd bet a great many of those involved in the survey would not consider waiting around in low sec for a freighter 'real' PvP.

First of all, I'm really curious to know where the reasoning for your prediction of the market comes from. Even if the availability of everything remains the same in each empire there will still be trends where people end up over saturating a market somewhere and someone can buy that up cheap and move it to another market for massive profits because there will be a built in threshold of when the hauling of the item becomes worth the risk. Currently any amount of difference can reap profits, but if you don't jump on it immediately someone else will do it, so there is no lag time between trade hubs currently and very little profitability.

Second, dec'ing NPC corps and forcing people to stay in wars is not in the spirit of this idea. With this idea high sec will still be safe. We're not proposing to eliminate high sec space to promote PvP. But this would create places for it to happen and you can choose to go there, or avoid it. Dec'ing NPC corps and keeping wars takes that choice away. I'm totally against that. If we could generate enough pvp content in low sec, then people might not even need wars anymore. You won't have to worry about Dec'ers camping Jita for easy undocking kills. They could be in a lowsec trade route killing trade the way it seems logical.
Sorana Bonzari wrote:
Jacid wrote:

Prices aren't high actually.. if you look at the price on trit, drakes, and talos over the last year the prices are pretty much the same thing last year they are this year..

Its a novel idea to put lowsec inbetween the 4 empires

I was quoting CCP about the prices its not my option so in regards about how CCP feels about the prices its not up for debate, thus this change will not happen untill prices are within CCP's standards.

Please provide a link to this quote. I'd be curious to see what it says/implies. And also to verify your legitimacy of course.

Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Not reading 26 pages of this horrible idea.
But did anyone already mention the fact that new players need to travel between all empires. Sisters of Eve Epic Arc ya know.

This is not an issue... You could just have to go through low sec and risk your ship to finish this arc. Or they could use Smuggler gates or something similar to progress the arc through high sec if they really care to make it perfectly safe. Whatever.... who cares?
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#525 - 2013-05-24 05:19:39 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Did anyone ever consider someone's area of operation is the whole hisec at a time?


Well if this alleged person does operate in all of highsec at once then hopefully they're using more than one account. They would then not be significantly affected by this change.

And if this really was an arguement then it would be similar to a little sh*t of a kid hogging all of the toys because "he needs them all and he's going to play with that one next.".

And if anyone is able to utilize all of high sec with one character then that needs nerfing.



I do live and manufacture in gallente.
I do mine in gallente and amarr.
I do run missions in gallente and minmatar.
I do trade in all four.

What have I missed?


There are people that do not belong to any faction and thus are allowed and legal everywhere. When real world countries are at war, they usually have safe neutral routes anyway.
Someone suggested a softer version with long route through a neighbouring empire to get to the other side, this makes sense for me.

I really have to question the amount of Mining in Amarr you do and the amount of Missions in Minmatar you run and the weight of the trading you do in Dodixie vs the rest. But regardless of that, do you really think you are entitled to all of that area with the pinnicle of safety in this game to carry you between then? There already is a safe way to commute between the 4 empires if they were separated... It's called Jump Clone. You'll just have to have more than 1 of each ship for your missions if you really want/need to do that.

How about this question then. Do you really need that to utilize every empire ""at the same time""? Would limiting you to one empire really wreck your game play/play style? Maybe someone's playstyle involves safe travel to all of eve space. Why don't we give that person special treatment and not let them be attackable by anyone in any space so they can play their sandbox style of play? Yeah it's a pretty silly idea just to make a point about the way you're coming off. I don't usually like to throw this term out that often, but your argument has a strong undertone and overtone of snowflake.

You are that bratty kid in the example i gave in the post you quoted arn't you?
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#526 - 2013-05-24 08:44:30 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
i'd expect the effects on markets to be more trivial than u'd expect.

as for escortng freighters through low sec, u'd need friends that would do it for a very small payment. most of the time it will be either more worthwhile for them to do something else, ur u'd have to pay them so much it wouldn't be worth ur while running the gauntlet.

and when ppl say it promotes PvP and such and such a survey says most ppl like PvP, so would making NPC corps deccable and forcing ppl to stay in corp during the duration of a dec. in fact, i'd bet a great many of those involved in the survey would not consider waiting around in low sec for a freighter 'real' PvP.

yes, and that's why it would be more difficult to acquire some goods in some places, hence the market switch

about the dec / pvp thing, i don't really know, sall one be forced to pvp? i don't think so, i like it, but i also agree some don't.

what is bad imao about dec, is what is happening from time to time.

you are dec' by another corp, you show up, and they stay in station, i would so much love to kick them outta stationTwisted

i mean, a 20-30 man corp, dec a 400 ppl aliance, what were they expecting, that we would come with 10 ppl?
and yet THEY dec us, and don't do anything but spin ship in station
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#527 - 2013-05-24 12:33:55 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:


How hard is it to own two ravens in each empire if you seriously need to run multiple mission types? (Which you don't) Not to mention if you just have a friend scout you in a frigate you can just move the one ship!
Also retrievers aren't very expensive.
Also I have outlined safe methods of crossing low sec so you can still trade, but make higher profits. Use a cloaked ship and move small things, buy a JF, scan a empire to empire or c1 wormhole. It isn't hard.

Also wtf are you talking about neutral routes in war? That is utter nonsense. In WWI do you think crossing into Germany was just trivial for the swiss? If that was the case why did the Germans starve?
In the Korean War how easy was it for neutral countries to dock freighters in korea? Maybe you could get in if your some kind of diplomat but otherwise what your talking about is pure BS.
Also the long route version is the current status quo, and nobody uses the short route because they can't do it afk.



It does not matter. It's their playstyle, they should not be forced through lowsec if they aren't interested in that kind of gameplay. Sandbox, its not just for PvP ambush predators anymore...


Your analogy about borders breaks down when you take into consideration no one uses pirates to enact blockades. Historically the only time piracy was used remotely this way was in the days of sailing ships where each country gave letters of marque to privateers to 'legalize' their preying on their enemies.

Now if your idea to extend lowsec included heavy navy patrols that openly hunted any act of piracy not involved in faction war, we would have a new idea worth discussing. No Concord, but no gate camping--- the one thing an empire sized military should be good at is escalating force to deal with problems within their own borders, so while you could fight off the Navy for a little while, it would not take them long to get the job done. Any Piracy would have to be done away from gates and patrolled areas. Of course this would require something out in space worth doing, valuable enough to put up with the hassle of pirates.
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#528 - 2013-05-24 23:31:02 UTC
Replying to everyone.
First. I'm not that rich to have my full collection of ships copied, not to mention some of them are quite hard to get. Same with JF, although it can be a reasonable investment.
Second. There's only 6 possible jump clones(including one active) which disallow copying all my implant sets, not even mentioning the money again.
Third. I rarely think of profit and usually work for the goal itself, and increased price difference doesn't help it in any way. I'm not going to move to caldari state/Jita just because someone wants to separate it from me completely.
Fourth. Current shorter route from me to jita is only 1 jump shorter than "safe" one (Uedama isn't completely safe). It's just a joke, there's no reason I would go there. 5 jumps vs 20-30 jumps? Yes, I consider it a reasonable difference. Shorter route to Rens is 3-4 jumps shorter, and I use it when no serious volumes are to be moved (yes, even a JF won't deal conveniently with billions of trit units).

You want me not to mine in Amarr space? Then give me Nocxium containing ores in gallente. Massively, grav sites are rare and tiny and can't supply my needs.

You mentioned special treatment. I am completely aware of ganking and okay with it - in a form it is in hisec. If I am worth ganking, try it out - and I'll do my best for you to fail, although would congratulate you upon success. I was upset when heared of tornado nerf and boomerang becoming illegal (and impossible?), coz it made things more interesting. But when I can be ganked just for the sake of ganking, I either give it up or go to gank or be ganked.

Someone mentioned military patrols, that also could be acceptible, although not makes too much sence as it is.


Every thing around have reasonable limits, and stepping beyond them.. I won't say it's silly, mad or anything. Just not the best thing you could have done. I remember I liked the general concept some time ago, but it seems to have changed
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#529 - 2013-05-27 04:44:51 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

It does not matter. It's their playstyle, they should not be forced through lowsec if they aren't interested in that kind of gameplay. Sandbox, its not just for PvP ambush predators anymore...


Your analogy about borders breaks down when you take into consideration no one uses pirates to enact blockades. Historically the only time piracy was used remotely this way was in the days of sailing ships where each country gave letters of marque to privateers to 'legalize' their preying on their enemies.

Now if your idea to extend lowsec included heavy navy patrols that openly hunted any act of piracy not involved in faction war, we would have a new idea worth discussing. No Concord, but no gate camping--- the one thing an empire sized military should be good at is escalating force to deal with problems within their own borders, so while you could fight off the Navy for a little while, it would not take them long to get the job done. Any Piracy would have to be done away from gates and patrolled areas. Of course this would require something out in space worth doing, valuable enough to put up with the hassle of pirates.


Ok, again, this idea does not Force anyone into low sec. Every profession is available in every empire already. The only thing you'd lose is diversity. All it does is give an incentive for someone to go through lowsec to increase diversity. If "their" playstyle is to be risk advert, then they may continue to be risk advert. Nobody is taking away their playstyle.

As for the analogy of old world pirates to eve. One thing you have to remember is that in eve we have to use stargates to get around. You could compare them to the mouth of a trade river, you can bet your sweet ass pirates would camp those. So gate camps are pretty much a real world practice back then.

Not sure about that last thing, seems like the pre-buffed concord. But in anycase i don't think it's necessary at all for anything.
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Replying to everyone.
First. I'm not that rich to have my full collection of ships copied, not to mention some of them are quite hard to get. Same with JF, although it can be a reasonable investment.
Second. There's only 6 possible jump clones(including one active) which disallow copying all my implant sets, not even mentioning the money again.
Third. I rarely think of profit and usually work for the goal itself, and increased price difference doesn't help it in any way. I'm not going to move to caldari state/Jita just because someone wants to separate it from me completely.
Fourth. Current shorter route from me to jita is only 1 jump shorter than "safe" one (Uedama isn't completely safe). It's just a joke, there's no reason I would go there. 5 jumps vs 20-30 jumps? Yes, I consider it a reasonable difference. Shorter route to Rens is 3-4 jumps shorter, and I use it when no serious volumes are to be moved (yes, even a JF won't deal conveniently with billions of trit units).

You want me not to mine in Amarr space? Then give me Nocxium containing ores in gallente. Massively, grav sites are rare and tiny and can't supply my needs.

You mentioned special treatment. I am completely aware of ganking and okay with it - in a form it is in hisec. If I am worth ganking, try it out - and I'll do my best for you to fail, although would congratulate you upon success. I was upset when heared of tornado nerf and boomerang becoming illegal (and impossible?), coz it made things more interesting. But when I can be ganked just for the sake of ganking, I either give it up or go to gank or be ganked.

Someone mentioned military patrols, that also could be acceptible, although not makes too much sence as it is.

Every thing around have reasonable limits, and stepping beyond them.. I won't say it's silly, mad or anything. Just not the best thing you could have done. I remember I liked the general concept some time ago, but it seems to have changed

What i'm getting out of your post is that you "can't be bothered" with the inconvenience, and for some reason you need to move things across empires. Please explain why.

Also i believe that there should be some high sec minerals that are only found in a specific empire's space. maybe mex and nocx be in cal/gal vs min/amarr. That would encourage trade and cause those minerals to have value from trans-empire shipping.

I really don't get why so many people feel that they will be required to move between empires. Just because you do it now doesn't mean you really have to.
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#530 - 2013-05-27 05:51:05 UTC
You want me to trade in dodixie? It's a joke.

And yes, empire specific ores is what I was talking about.

Then. Fueling caldari towers in gallente space?

Working in specific areas for very special agents? (Osmon is unique, for example. As well as caldari epic arc, COSMOS agents, etc)

And don't tell me about ravens, those are neither for fun nor for making money. Maybe in Odyssey this will change, but navy scorp holds its positions as the only caldari BS in my most wanted list.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#531 - 2013-05-27 13:49:02 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
As for the analogy of old world pirates to eve. One thing you have to remember is that in eve we have to use stargates to get around. You could compare them to the mouth of a trade river, you can bet your sweet ass pirates would camp those. So gate camps are pretty much a real world practice back then.


This resulted in one of 2 outcomes everywhere it happened:

1. The governing empire deemed the route important, and naval ships were dispatched to the area to keep it clear of pirates. If necessary new ports and military forts were built to watch over the area. Piracy happened, as it still does today, but not anywhere a major military naval power decided was important.

2. The governing empire ignored the problem, and the area was eventually lost to the government. This usually resolved in a few ways depending on local conditions. Sometimes the pirates themselves began policing the area as it was a safe harbor for repairs and supplies otherwise unavailable to them- most often in areas that already saw so little traffic that it wasn't worth hunting. Sometimes the community simply stopped any significant trade overseas, instead relying on local landbased resources trade routes--targets dried up, pirates eventually went away. Sometimes the community just died--No more pirates here either.


Piracy, and it's land based equivalent of banditry, has never been a problem tolerated by any significant major power. You simply cannot allow it... it either gets dealt with or the would-be governors lose control of the area. You will always have crime and criminals, but the sort of lawless anarchy represented by the way pirates operate in Lowsec are only possible in undeveloped, rarely traveled areas of the world. The piracy itself prevents the development of the area, and the longer and more pronounced the problem, the fewer targets will show up. This is exactly the heart of this very idea---there are too few targets in lowsec, because despite the higher rewards in lowsec the pirates have created such a reputation for the area that only other likeminded folks care to go there.

This idea seeks to create an artificial set of conditions where any sort of reliable trade is forced through the area yet for some reason the governments owning the areas will not put resources into securing the route. This very simply does not happen for any length of time. This will either result in resource homogenization so that each empire can exist completely independent from each other and trade across empires will cease, NPC seeding of goods in station so new players can afford something better than the newbie frigate and the civilian gear that's on it, or lost subscriptions.

So long as actual PvP combat mechanics (not just running away) remain completely and overwhelmingly in favor of ambush predator tactics, and pretty much not fun for anyone not looking to engage purely in PvP combat with no other realistic goal for their evening of gameplay, this idea will remain unworkable.
Ewersmen
Perkone
Caldari State
#532 - 2013-05-27 14:04:25 UTC
Leave highsec alone ...theres plenty of low and null to play in ...go have a pirate war :P
Douglas Whyte
WhyteKream
#533 - 2013-05-28 23:01:58 UTC
I actually do like this,
With how the empire space is mapped it's like putting an X in the center of Hi-SEC, effectively a moat around each empire. Everybody know's every awesome castle has a moat :P

However, I think this could go a step further by taking elements of FW and implementing it into these systems.

Instead of Faction versus Faction, Concord versus Pirates versus Pirates.

The fight? secure trade routes.

Hi-sec roamer's can now align with Concord to assist in the strengthening a system's security. Low-sec roamer's can now ALIGN with a pirate faction to weaken system's security.

The security status of a system will never go higher then .5, however can be brought down as low as 0.

Combine this with the already present lore of incursions, and you can create a plot in which pirates are now aggressively seeking to weaken the unity of Empire space and ultimately Concord power.

This will allow players to create safe trade routes at the expense of having to actively maintain the systems security.

Kick it up a notch?

With there now space divided between all empire's, Each faction as seen an opportunity to exploit the pirates effort's for their benefit. Faction WF pilot's can actively bridge a FACTION FORTIFIED trade route between their allies. These bridge systems allowed to gain a security status of 1.0 FACTION GUARDED. No concord presence. Meaning Neutral (faction standing) pirates will be allowed passage to engage the "common" enemy, so long as they don't attack the controlling faction.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#534 - 2013-05-29 00:07:24 UTC
Douglas Whyte wrote:
I actually do like this,
With how the empire space is mapped it's like putting an X in the center of Hi-SEC, effectively a moat around each empire. Everybody know's every awesome castle has a moat :P

However, I think this could go a step further by taking elements of FW and implementing it into these systems.

Instead of Faction versus Faction, Concord versus Pirates versus Pirates.

The fight? secure trade routes.

Hi-sec roamer's can now align with Concord to assist in the strengthening a system's security. Low-sec roamer's can now ALIGN with a pirate faction to weaken system's security.

The security status of a system will never go higher then .5, however can be brought down as low as 0.

Combine this with the already present lore of incursions, and you can create a plot in which pirates are now aggressively seeking to weaken the unity of Empire space and ultimately Concord power.

This will allow players to create safe trade routes at the expense of having to actively maintain the systems security.

Kick it up a notch?

With there now space divided between all empire's, Each faction as seen an opportunity to exploit the pirates effort's for their benefit. Faction WF pilot's can actively bridge a FACTION FORTIFIED trade route between their allies. These bridge systems allowed to gain a security status of 1.0 FACTION GUARDED. No concord presence. Meaning Neutral (faction standing) pirates will be allowed passage to engage the "common" enemy, so long as they don't attack the controlling faction.




I'll pretty much support any idea that brings the pirate factions into faction warfare or allows players to work with them more, so you've got my vote.
Douglas Whyte
WhyteKream
#535 - 2013-05-29 00:38:48 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:


I'll pretty much support any idea that brings the pirate factions into faction warfare or allows players to work with them more, so you've got my vote.


TBH... with how the pirate faction themselves are set up to mirror the major factions, I don't understand why FW takes place in Low SEC.

Honestly LowSec should of been a contested between each of the pirate faction's,
And take this idea but never low sec, instead make it Faction Hi-sec, where militia members are allowed to engage in combat with ANY player of the opposing faction when in their space. Then make these system's contested. Allowing for Empires to expand and shift.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#536 - 2013-05-29 01:26:47 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:

Post in the thread if you like this idea help! A simple "I like this idea!" would be nice!
Also a dev response would be cool, maybe, after 10,000 views it would be pretty sweet.

So moving stuff from place to place in eve isn't really all that dangerous, difficult, interesting, or that profitable most of the time. Piracy isn't all that profitable either. So why not add more lowsec between the 4 empires. By more I mean, it would be utterly impossible to get from gallente space to caldari space without crossing lowsec at some point.

When doing this I wouldn't want the routes to be setup where there are only 1-2 chokepoints you have to cross, I would also prescribe the addition of new regions.

...

Says the pirate as he drools at all the expensive ships and modules moving around high sec. Then jump freighters hop stuff through the low sec border by jumping it to the low sec station and the pirate whines even more about getting rid of all low sec stations.

Then faction warfare claims another system for a different faction and the low sec system border moves. Soon all stations are removed from high sec and low sec and all trading and commerce stops. The Eve economy collapses and the pirate says, What? It's better this way. :)

Sounding too ridiculous yet? I'll stop here to save the OP a shred of dignity.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Douglas Whyte
WhyteKream
#537 - 2013-05-29 01:34:41 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:

Says the pirate as he drools at all the expensive ships and modules moving around high sec. Then jump freighters hop stuff through the low sec border by jumping it to the low sec station and the pirate whines even more about getting rid of all low sec stations.

Then faction warfare claims another system for a different faction and the low sec system border moves. Soon all stations are removed from high sec and low sec and all trading and commerce stops. The Eve economy collapses and the pirate says, What? It's better this way. :)

Sounding too ridiculous yet? I'll stop here to save the OP a shred of dignity.


His suggestion had nothing to do with converting Hi-sec to Low-sec. It was focused on having a low sec moat between empire's. Which would be interesting. However I think would be better if the hi-sec runner could at least have the option to flip a few into secure systems and build a bridge they can maintain.

There's so much isk out there in low sec and null sec compared to hi-sec. If that's not enough to get players to take a risk, forcing them to do it, or cornering them isn't going to do any good for the game.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2013-05-29 04:09:50 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
You want me to trade in dodixie? It's a joke.

And yes, empire specific ores is what I was talking about.

Then. Fueling caldari towers in gallente space?

Working in specific areas for very special agents? (Osmon is unique, for example. As well as caldari epic arc, COSMOS agents, etc)

And don't tell me about ravens, those are neither for fun nor for making money. Maybe in Odyssey this will change, but navy scorp holds its positions as the only caldari BS in my most wanted list.


Yes judging by your post, apparently high sec is too comfortable. Seems a lot like welfare in America. We have generations of welfare families because it's too comfortable and there are no incentives to get a job. Unlike America, we can make eve a better place to play. We can get rid of our Highsec/Welfare comfortability. If you want bigger and better rewards like a navy scorp or very special agents, then you should have to put up the risk for them like every other reward in eve.
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Too Long Didn't Quote

I think this will actually make things more interesting if it happened. First off, it seems you envision 1 pipe between each empire. If they did make it like that then yeah, things wouldn't move well at all. With enough systems and enough scoutting it shouldn't be hard to make it from empire to empire without losing your load. That being said, as more people start to take your route then the stuff you said happens, pirates camp there then people stop and move and pirates move again etc etc.
Douglas Whyte wrote:
Pirate FW etc

I believe if they change the Personal Security Rating system just a bit then things like this wouldn't be necessary. If positive sec players could shoot negative sec players without lose sec rating then there would be an inherent version of good (+sec) vs bad(-sec). And +sec people would generally ignore +sec people so if you see +sec people in a low sec system and you are +sec, then you'd be pretty well safe there.

It just needs a few tweaks. First of all, + attacking a + should get a higher rating hit. And anyone attacking a - sec rating wouldn't lose any sec rating so -'s can shoot -'s all day. Also no more security status boost from null sec. If security doesn't exist in null, then why should you get a security boost there? This system would work very well with the new Tags 4 Sec system and also give a boost to the demand of the -5 to 0 sec tags. This would make low sec more useable and profitable in it's own ways.
Andy Landen wrote:

Sounding too ridiculous yet?

Yes, your ideas are too ridiculous. Evestinction Level Events do not exist.
Ewersmen wrote:
Leave highsec alone ...theres plenty of low and null to play in ...go have a pirate war :P

Currently the problem is that low doesnt really have the population to have a war in. And really Low isn't supposed to be the place to war, it's supposed to be the place to roam and be a pirate or shoot pirates. But currently you can't shoot pirates without being/becoming a pirate. With the OP's idea and my sec status idea it would be a place with much fun and satisfaction to be had.

Nobody is being forced into lowsec but this does give more opportunity for people to do stuff/profit from it. Currently there are no real rewards in lowsec except for FW atm. Everything else and including many activities in null sec are just slightly more rewarding than highsec. This will be the start of making a difference and also giving more identity to the 4 races!
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#539 - 2013-05-29 05:04:02 UTC
Douglas Whyte wrote:

There's so much isk out there in low sec and null sec compared to hi-sec.


You must be thinking of WH space.... Or maybe alliance money from moon faucets? That's hardly the point of this little thread.

Please inform me of these great mountains of isk waiting to be made in low/null.

The difference between mining in highsec vs nullsec. Nullsec mining has this great problem with consistency, where you will find yourself unable to go mine because of campers/ctas and stuff. And when you do mine, cherry pickers eat up all the high end ore so you're stuck shooting high sec rocks anyway. In low it would probably be worse without having the sov indy infrastructure. Regardless, scordite is fairly competitive across the board. Mining scordite is not a huge loss vs the other high end ores.

I guess null sec ratting is pretty good, but you don't end up with the LP you get from high sec missions. And those too are affected by the things mentioned above. Though not to such a great extent as mining. Low sec doesn't have sov military infrastructure either.

As for level 5 missions. Well i guess that locking down systems in low sec is roughly the same except for no bubbling and any time you engage someone above sec -5, you lose sec status. So i guess this case is where you can make some money in low, cons aside.
Douglas Whyte
WhyteKream
#540 - 2013-05-29 18:58:13 UTC
There other event's that happen in low/null that allow a player to make more isk.

The problem is you need friends, there are some things you can do alone, however if you go into null/low with the mentality to do all the things you do in hi-sec, then you're not going to make much more.

Not to mention... MINING IS A JOKE. Really I don't understand why ANYONE does it besides bots. There's just no isk there. You make what 10m an hour? maybe 20m in null? I can make more running lvl 3's. Granted... risk vs reward.... but when I can run lvl 4's and come out with more mineral's per hour then a hi-sec miner.... it just makes no sense of why do it.