Ships & Modules

I call pure and utter BS. 1 more rig slot is not going to allow a ship to "break out" of it's specialization.... How did you even come to this conclusion other than "quoting" what ccp said years ago when they introduced rigs.

basically my whole point is, T3 ships are not in line. not even close. the Tengu is TOO GOOD at raping and pillaging everything PVE, and hands down the best cruiser in the game in PVP in pretty much any situation. with very high SP and faction gear of course. a perfectly flown and fit Tengu laughs at Machariels even. so there is little reason to fly anything else.

I don't fly T3's, so I'm not going to state if individual ships should be nerfed/buffed but looking at the stats, how they're used and their popularity, there's obviously some disparity.

From what I understand the general design rule was that T2 are specialised vessels (ie, things like the Diemost getting near BS level dps) which excel at one defined role while the T3's were meant to be not quite as good as a T2 at a specific role but retain much more flexibility and can do many roles.

Currently the other T3's don't seem to eclipse the T2 cruiser line up but it does seem as if the Tengu simply dicks over any of the T2 cruiser line up with regards to PVE (and possibly, over quite a few in PvP) and not only that, it also does seem to be better than the classes that are bigger than it (BC/BS) at their roles.

If the other T3's don't completely nullify their T2 (or T1) counterparts but the Tengu does, then it's not wrong to logically assume that the other 3 are relatively balanced on the entire shipscape and that the Tengu needs looking at to bring it in line.

Thing is as I don't fly it, I dunno if it's because of the ship itself, the weapons, or the bonuses to the weapons that make it seem to stand head and shoulders above the rest.

Hey the tengu is good no doubt about that. Solo it's a good exploration and great mission ship and in gangs it turns WHs into easy mode.

BUT...who cares if a (pimped) t3 cruiser can match a faction battleship in lvl 4 efficiency. (lol lvl4s) Solo exploration it's good but not uber by a long shot. WHs, I'll grant you, tengus excel at, but that's the only area where imo they beat a lot of other ships hands down. That's mainly because they combine ease of use, low barrier to entry, and relatively high efficiency. (sort of like a drake lol)

PvP...I've never actually flown a tengu in pvp solo because I just don't have that kind of cash to throw around. But from the ones I've fought and killed and been killed by, I can say that the amount of pimping you need to put into a tengu to solo pvp in an uber way is ridiculous. And recons will screw you over.

Overall, I'm far more in favor of buffing the other t3s up to tengu performance level. Tbh, I think if you nerf the tengu in any significant way it will suck totally and people will stop flying it overnight.

vargur is the best muhaha consider subcaps only

Balance is never and should never be done on a basis of PVE.

For tiny-small Gang PVP
Tengu 100MN AB good tank and good damage projection
Good PVP boat when facing noobs without adequate tackle

Loki 50KM Web/Point decent speed
Very nice tackler

Proteus Nice buffer with facemelting DPS and can fit long scram
Useful in low mobility situations

Legion Umm? HAM dual MAR
Never seen one in action but they can theoretically tank a bit.

For medium+ sized Fleet
Tengu - You can make a fleet of Tengus that do bad things to people.
Loki - Its still just a tackler. A couple in fleet can be nice if you have the money. Rapier may be more cost effective though even if its going to be a lot thinner.
Proteus - Not really wonderful in fleets. Can fit a long point I suppose. Or for cheap you could use an Arazu and point further.
Legion - If this isn't AB AHACs GTFO. If this is AB AHACs why didn't you just get a zealot?

Therefore T3s, while all being able to do stuff small gang, aren't uniformally useful in fleets. If anthing the not-Tengus need a minor buff.

Does Tengu Need a Nerf?

Tengu doesn't need a nerf.

Heavy missiles need a nerf.

Tengu is just a regular strategic cruiser in any aspect, xept DPS projection.

Exellent DPS projection makes it (as well as it makes Drake the best BC) best SC.


IMO heavy missiles is the problem. Not Tengu/Drake itself.

Tengus aren't that great vs EM weak rats, in that case their DPS is less than a Loki's - let alone battlehips with EM type ammo.
Also the fact that you lose SP for being ganked doesn't make it exactly a riskless business flying one.
In PvP they sacrifice significant DPS for survivability. It´s not all that `Iwin`.

I do admit it´s the most versatile T3 hands down. But we have the best ship for everything. Should we nerf the Rifter too? Or the Rupture? The Thrasher? The Curse? The Iteron V? The Nyx? Just because they're the best in their class?

The Omen? THE OMEN? Best in his class? I really hope you meant another ship.