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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#161 - 2013-05-23 22:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.


It's FUNDAMENTAL that there's a mechanism to store per computer unique settings.

Feasibility: you can do it, because you already fingerprint the clients and you can use it as "hash code" / index to look up for sets of settings.

Why do it: because many, MANY of us have these super common use cases:

Use case 1:

Computer at home, computer at work / school / relatives.

Use case 2:

Multiple computers at home and the same accounts sometimes need to run on one computer, other times on another(s).



Typically, whereas a majority will only play 1-2 accounts on the same computer forever, many multi-accounters (read: those who pay CCP more) have a variety of computers to run EvE on.

I have 5 computers at home, all with EvE installed. I also have one notebook at the office to play EvE during lunch break (here they last hours Ugh) and a netbook for the same task.

At home I may play 4 clients on my main rig (very powerful) at high graphics settings for "top level" EvE game play but also to do refresh Planetary Interaction on 106 planets (one hundred six) and this is best done in a computer that is fast and detailed graphics.

Some days I will play 2 clients on that computer and 4 on another.

Other days I need to play 1 account (say PvE / PVP) + 1 Orca booster character and on another computer 2 mining alts and on another computer another 2-3.

Other days I need to trade the EvE markets and I fire up the clients on less power expensive laptops maybe while doing PvE on the powerful computer and mining on less powerful computers.

Other days I play another MMO plus Orca booster on main computer and miners on laptops or another less powerful computer.


In any case, limit my freedom once again by removing many years old intelligent and versatile features and my 6 subs will be immediately gone. As obvious consequence I'll also have to abandon my open source EvE softwares and offcial EvE fan website.

It's not a treat or anything, it'll be just an obvious consequence at having been made impossible to play EvE in a moving and shifting world we live in.

In fact I can't configure a one-size-fits-all when one computer is a MONSTER, another is average, a powerful notebook has its different screen size, transparencies etc. etc, the nebook obviously has baseline settings tuned for memory saving and performance.



Edit:

If you will ignore this unexpected users need (we see you missed this possibility and it's worrysome to see so) then get ready for a beating and sh!tstorm that WILL make these days threadnoughs look sweet and educate in comparison.

MANY advanced users including many null sec players with lots of accounts are in my same situation.

I see somehow you guys did not "get" this and this WILL cost a lot to implement since it appears you had no plans to address multi-config. But ignoring it and blindly going ahead will.... ehm.... put you in a situation I don't envy the least. Really. Really.
Kai Pirinha
#162 - 2013-05-23 22:55:47 UTC
Steijn wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.


Im sorry but i find that question simply staggering. It basically shows the customer base that maybe not all, but certainly some of CCP, have no idea just how this game is played.

Absolutely agreed.
One issue that you cannot avoid, even if you tie the graphic settings to an account, is that with different junctions you can also have more than 5 overview tabs. One of my chars is currently a Scan, tackle and Logistics alt (soon to be a carrier alt too). Usually I just scan with it and have my five overview settings. But if I get into my logistics, I don't want to change my overview settings (because it's always a bit of work and might potentially screw something up - never change a running system). So I start it with the other junction, which opens the client in my main screen instead of the smaller one and also loads the overviews I use for logistics.

Hello World

Haista Napa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#163 - 2013-05-23 22:56:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Haista Napa
Too bad the launcher still isn't working for me (Linux user, running under WINE) and that even following the instructions for not losing your settings, I ended up losing all of my settings.

Not wanting to give a "it doesn't work" complaint, my problem is that the launcher does not allow me to launch the game:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5185/eveq.png
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#164 - 2013-05-23 22:57:29 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.

Personally, I run multiple installs via junctions to maintain different sets of settings for each install. In my case, the base install is max graphics while the junction is minimal.

This gives me the ability to quickly choose between the two sets of settings for each client I launch, considering that my priorities depends on the number of accounts I am going to be logging in and what I am going to be doing with them (spinning in station or getting into an Asakai-level fight).

Exactly. If the ability to store, manage, maintain, migrate, modify, whatever with your settings is handled in the EVE Launcher, then there only need exist one underlying installation. I know work was done to enable texture sharing between instances, and having them running the same executable (not just a copy of the same executable) would encourage this, leading to overall better performance for multiboxers, less space used on the hard disk (although I admit this is negligible for those using junctions or symlinks) and the ability to move between computers easily and take your settings with you.

CCP Atropos, its all about the War on Clicks.

Say we have instal A set to one set of settings and Install B set to a different set of settings:

I can run A, log in and have those settings
Then I can run B, log in and have different settings.

Now lets say we have one install and two sets of settings saved:
I run the launcher, select a set of settings, log in

Its one extra step. With two installs I automatically select which set of settings I get by selecting which install I run, and save a step.

I'm use the Mac client and I got 3 clones (installs with junctions). Each one assumes one of my accounts. So all I got to do is run the correct one and enter a password. It saves me the step of selecting the account.

Somewhere I am getting a vision... its some thing like

run "eve online"/account="Fred"/settings="My_settings_one"/action="play"

if only I knew unix...

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#165 - 2013-05-23 23:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
CCP Atropos wrote:
...the SSO works by creating a browser session, so that any time you navigate to an EVE Online website, within that browser context/session you will be logged in. Since the EVE Launcher is not the browser that you would be doing this navigation within, you still need to login.


If we can't actually use the launcher to access those sites then what is the point of the SSO session? Perhaps there is something I do not understand:

1. I use the launcher to log in an account.
2. I click the Account Management link at the top of the launcher.
3. Chrome opens the page but I am not logged in.

Where is the benefit of SSO in this context? Why do I need to click Play after logging in if there is nothing I can actually do apart from Play anyway? Just another annoying click...

Edit: and why does the client still authenticate? You log into your account in the launcher, you log into your account in the client, you log into your character in the client. There is an easier way.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#166 - 2013-05-23 23:14:31 UTC
So I'm guessing the reason why I have to launch the launcher, enter my login details, press login, and then press play again to actually launch the client is because you want to add stuff to the launcher later on, but for now all you've done is added another click. Would it be possible to have a "login and launch" option to begin with, in case I'm not interested in any of the hypothetical future stuff?

With the old launcher I could set it to only show its face when there was a game update and save myself some hassle, why was that option removed?
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#167 - 2013-05-23 23:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Haur
CCP Atropos wrote:
Lord Haur wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.

Personally, I run multiple installs via junctions to maintain different sets of settings for each install. In my case, the base install is max graphics while the junction is minimal.

This gives me the ability to quickly choose between the two sets of settings for each client I launch, considering that my priorities depends on the number of accounts I am going to be logging in and what I am going to be doing with them (spinning in station or getting into an Asakai-level fight).

Exactly. If the ability to store, manage, maintain, migrate, modify, whatever with your settings is handled in the EVE Launcher, then there only need exist one underlying installation. I know work was done to enable texture sharing between instances, and having them running the same executable (not just a copy of the same executable) would encourage this, leading to overall better performance for multiboxers, less space used on the hard disk (although I admit this is negligible for those using junctions or symlinks) and the ability to move between computers easily and take your settings with you.

I was going to write something, but the other responses to both of your quotes in this post do a far better job.
Kai Pirinha
#168 - 2013-05-23 23:35:44 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Exactly. If the ability to store, manage, maintain, migrate, modify, whatever with your settings is handled in the EVE Launcher, then there only need exist one underlying installation. I know work was done to enable texture sharing between instances, and having them running the same executable (not just a copy of the same executable) would encourage this, leading to overall better performance for multiboxers, less space used on the hard disk (although I admit this is negligible for those using junctions or symlinks) and the ability to move between computers easily and take your settings with you.


If I understand you correctly, I can login Char A with settings A, Char B with settings B, Char C with settings C, Char D with settings B for instance, right?

Ok right now all I have to do is click, enter my password, click on the screen, done (and I can do this simultaneously with multiple chars right now).

In the future I have to start the launcher, enter my password for the account, check and change the settings to A, B, C or D, hit enter, close the launcher, restart the launcher, enter my password, choose another settings, hit enter, close the launcher, [...] (you get the point).

So in the future I will also have to pay attention to the settings, so that I don't accidentally login with Char C and setting B, which would mean to logout and start the whole process all over again.
*irony* That sounds great, two thumbs up /irony

I thought you wanted to get us in the game faster. All the new launcher will do is to slow us down. This is not an improvement!

Hello World

bw8
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2013-05-23 23:41:58 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
can we still bypass the launcher using the bin folder eve.exe?

as I only want the game client on my pc. I do not want some bloated sales tool

You can, yes. The old login method still exists for the moment, however with login moved into the EVE Launcher then the concept of the old login screen simply doesn't make sense.



Atropos...i really can't agree with your logic here.

You're saying that: since CCP has decided to move to a SSO mechanism that is independent from the "old" method of logging in, the old visually striking immersive game login is irrelevant? That's rather closed minded (however not very surprising) and somewhat dismissive sadly.

I can't see why CCP can't figure out how to build that much desired login/SSO functionality INTO the EVE client over multiple instances instead of using that goofy launcher.

*****How about a method of combining/linking multiple characters/accounts into a SSO interface so that you can login to any of the characters/accounts from a single sign on? *****
You know, similar to what Microsoft did with the Messaging program's functionality communicating over facebook, google+, etc... in Windows 8. Now that would make me happy as heck!!!!!!!!!!
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#170 - 2013-05-24 00:03:51 UTC
Steijn wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Could you tell me your reasons for having more than one installation (either physical or via junctions/symlinks) if you are able to start a client with a given set of settings.


Im sorry but i find that question simply staggering. It basically shows the customer base that maybe not all, but certainly some of CCP, have no idea just how this game is played.

In case it wasn't clear, I do know why people run multiple accounts, I was more interested in whether or not he had any reasons beyond having different settings. I encountered one player at Fanfest who had two installations and kept them on separate drives for apparent performance reasons, and another player who had more than a dozen full copies of the game to handle the individual settings profiles.

In the current architecture, multiple installations are required for the ability to have multiple different settings profiles. I want to remove this requirement (to have a second installation/copy/whatever) and just allow specific support for it, with the only reason you have a second installation being that you want to access the test server, something that I also want to improve support for, within the EVE Launcher.
Count Edmond
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#171 - 2013-05-24 00:05:09 UTC
ok this is not good my EVE Online Launcher will not load eve.exe will not load eve.exe (Safe Mode) will not load . trys to load but does not work . no errors at all come up just does not work.

i was able to play with ExeFile.exe but now it goes it said: ready to update status: Incompatible (Build) so now i can even play a game that i pay for.


what do i do i am losing time and money.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#172 - 2013-05-24 00:06:53 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
So those of us who have no launcher will eventually have no option other than to quit EVE?

What do you mean you have no launcher? Are you implying that you bypass it by choice, that it doesn't work on your computer or something else?

If it's a bug I'd very much like to help fix that, if it's a dislike of the design or direction we're taking with it, I'll listen to your concerns, and if it's something else, then I'll just respond to that when I know what it is Smile
MaRU2760 133
Unit 439
#173 - 2013-05-24 00:10:05 UTC
@ CCP Atropos: How many current players are even interested in SSO as described in the Dev Blogs?

I am, and I think many other players are, interested in playing the game.

Intrusive advertising and the ability to move to other CCP websites without loging in have noting to do with the game.

I'm sure that there are a few players who want more bells and whistles but I AM NOT one of them.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#174 - 2013-05-24 00:12:32 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
pmchem wrote:
What is the response of CCP to the concept of the login screen being iconic art?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3070688#post3070688

Iconic art, and an excellent new player experience, which is now gone.


That's something we're very aware of, we know a lot of people loved the old log-in screen for it's artistic value even if it doesn't serve a technical need any longer. And it's a question we will address. I'm not the right person to go deeper into that at this point though :)

But it's one of those things that are noted.

The only thing customers get out of this art:
1) Graphics card burn out if you launch more than one client and don't immediately log in.
2) Diversion of resources from the graphics team for something pretty that we saw for maybe 15 secs (if we didn't walk away to get a tea while allowing our graphics card to toast.

Just like WiS - don't waste precious DEV resources for something pretty much useless after the new launcher due to nostalgia.

CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#175 - 2013-05-24 00:12:48 UTC
Kai Pirinha wrote:
Also, another thing that really bugs me: Each time there is the smallest patch, the new launcher forgets its settings (the launcher settings, not the eve settings).
So after each small patch I have to readjust my settings and add "close eve launcher after starting eve online" and more importantly remove the tick for "send error and usage logs to CCP". <--- Why do you reset this every time? I DONT WANT TO SEND YOU USAGE LOGS. ACCEPT IT!

This shouldn't happen. The EVE Launcher will try to save the settings to a yaml file located in it's cache folder, which is inside the launcher folder in your EVE installation.

If there's a permission issue (it can't save to Program Files for example) I would have expected that to have appeared to you at some point. In the case that it can't load any settings (probably because it can't save any in the first place) it will load the default settings, which include the log sending being enabled option.

If you're able either file a bug report, and we can work on fixing this or copy the logs to pastebin where we can look at them. This very much isn't how it should work, and I would really appreciate the bug report and logs.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#176 - 2013-05-24 00:19:57 UTC
Lord Haur wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:

We weren't early enough with the deployment announcements. We were not happy with our communication on that day in general.
You haven't been early enough with deployment announcements for a little while. This is one of the two that stands out, the other being the deployment of Retribution 1.2 on May 6th, when the announcement was barely 8h ahead of the extended downtime and associated 500MB patch.

I would expect at least a couple days warning for such large deployments and significant changes to the login mechanism.


I love how Dust related patches just appear out of nowhere. Someone's team is not on board for sure.


Every patch should have a "this is what we're doing to you and when" announcement.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#177 - 2013-05-24 00:20:37 UTC
Repost from the old thread:

I use multiple copies of the client via a file system fork.

On the old launcher, each fork kept a separate account history, so each desktop shortcut would default to a specific user account. The new one lists the same account at all times.

The very strange part is each fork still opens on its assigned monitor correctly. So it is aware of the forks. This is very strange behavior.
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#178 - 2013-05-24 00:22:15 UTC
On that point, why is it trying to save it's settings into Program Files in the first place?
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#179 - 2013-05-24 00:23:15 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
CCP Atropos

when are you removing the ability to use the bin folder eve.exe?

is it going to be on june the 4th or can we keep using this after the path on that day?


If they remove this within the next 3 months I'm dropping accounts. This was the only back up for a release disaster... given the inability to fully test the architecture in the RL - they need all the backup plans they can muster

Len Ross
Doomheim
#180 - 2013-05-24 00:32:53 UTC
So basically You have admitted its a bad launcher.
This is a serious question, OK if it is bad and you know it. why spend a couple of weeks with it active and trying to fix it when its the first port of call for a potential new customer, and your existing customers?
Why not just roll it back, work on it and deploy a fixed and tested version?