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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Separate the four empires with low security space.

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#501 - 2013-05-22 16:51:57 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:

Repeated accusations that people advocating for this don't understand your perspective (when they have demonstrated that they do and it is flawed) only suggests that you don't understand it yourself.

I do understand that some people don't like lowsec, the problem is often is not with lowsec itself however, but with those players perception of it. Giving them more reason to interact with it would help get rid of this unreasonable fear for some players.



That very bit of reasoning is why it keeps being repeated that some just don't like Low Sec.


No one is just going to wake up one morning and decide that the pirates were right all along and that being victimized really is more fun.

The statement that no one would be forced into lowsec is disingenuous. While technically true, it does seek to remove all other reasonable options for a variety of playstyles. You can go through lowsec, probably with much smaller and/or more expensive ships, or go through wormholes with no idea where you will come out and potentially as great a risk in getting shot and losing cargo. That's just hauling, its intended victim. For others... The reasoning that I should not need to run damsel for all 4 empires is silly. What if I do? What if that's what I enjoy in the sandbox? Why curtail my ability to move to another empire in a PvE ship just to suit the tastes of some gatecamping pirates?


There are reasons to go into lowsec, and even fairly valuable ones if not for the culture that exists there---there is just no requirement to do so. It's much easier to set up a POS in Lowsec, which is the backbone of any serious indy character. Why are not small corps streaming into lowsec to do it? I imagine some are, but for the most part it's not worth the hassle the pirates cause. Higher bounties, bigger rats, level 5 missions, etc... but the pirates make the risk/reward impossible to balance or justify unless you happen to like the fight itself. Those that do are there already.

EvE is an odd game half way between industry and shooter. The regular denizens of lowsec treat it as a pure shooter, sort of a battlefield in space, only with easier targets that can't shoot back.
Ackilles Shadowfire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#502 - 2013-05-22 16:59:19 UTC
Love this idea
Xeros Black
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#503 - 2013-05-22 18:20:17 UTC
I think a separation of empires if the idea was expanded on could further promote trade as a profession. For example by seeding only Amarr BPOs and Skill books in Amarr space would create a solid trade just in the trafficing of skill books and BPOs. People from different regions would be more likely to specialize in their particular racial ship (caldari pilot flying caldari ships.) I do like the idea of navy police taking over concord.. but then again i never really liked the concept of concord and its absolute power sort of breaks the immersion and sandboxyness of the game.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#504 - 2013-05-22 20:00:52 UTC
Lai HasCake wrote:
This is a good idea but it would require balancing so their are more routes to take to avoid camps, also gate guns should not be removed instead maybe buffed to the point where it would not be viable to attack low value targets for fear an aggression timer would prevent you scoring a bigger catch.


Sounds like a good way to make use of the system security levels. Say at 0.4 the guns are pretty strong and at 0.1 the guns are pretty much negligable. This might make some paths higher traffic but make low traffic paths slightly safer.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#505 - 2013-05-22 20:07:37 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Did anyone ever consider someone's area of operation is the whole hisec at a time?


Well if this alleged person does operate in all of highsec at once then hopefully they're using more than one account. They would then not be significantly affected by this change.

And if this really was an arguement then it would be similar to a little sh*t of a kid hogging all of the toys because "he needs them all and he's going to play with that one next.".

And if anyone is able to utilize all of high sec with one character then that needs nerfing.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#506 - 2013-05-22 20:09:28 UTC
Shade Alidiana wrote:
Did anyone ever consider someone's area of operation is the whole hisec at a time?


Yes, and I don't think that it should be as easy to accomplish that as it is now.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#507 - 2013-05-22 20:37:35 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
That very bit of reasoning is why it keeps being repeated that some just don't like Low Sec.


No one is just going to wake up one morning and decide that the pirates were right all along and that being victimized really is more fun.

The statement that no one would be forced into lowsec is disingenuous. While technically true, it does seek to remove all other reasonable options for a variety of playstyles. You can go through lowsec, probably with much smaller and/or more expensive ships, or go through wormholes with no idea where you will come out and potentially as great a risk in getting shot and losing cargo. That's just hauling, its intended victim. For others... The reasoning that I should not need to run damsel for all 4 empires is silly. What if I do? What if that's what I enjoy in the sandbox? Why curtail my ability to move to another empire in a PvE ship just to suit the tastes of some gatecamping pirates?


There are reasons to go into lowsec, and even fairly valuable ones if not for the culture that exists there---there is just no requirement to do so. It's much easier to set up a POS in Lowsec, which is the backbone of any serious indy character. Why are not small corps streaming into lowsec to do it? I imagine some are, but for the most part it's not worth the hassle the pirates cause. Higher bounties, bigger rats, level 5 missions, etc... but the pirates make the risk/reward impossible to balance or justify unless you happen to like the fight itself. Those that do are there already.

EvE is an odd game half way between industry and shooter. The regular denizens of lowsec treat it as a pure shooter, sort of a battlefield in space, only with easier targets that can't shoot back.


Please inform us of these variety of play styles that require safe travel to all 4 empires on a consistant basis? Trade? Hauling? Yeah this would be a significant buff to the reward cap of those professions though it would make the consistancy of income harder to maintain safely.

Regardless of that there is nothing currently in any of the empires you can't do in any of the others.

Also your other comments show your lack of knowledge of the non-highsec aspects of the game. Low sec, wspace. The reason people are not streaming into lowsec is because there really is no great rewards to be had there. And your pos becomes susceptible to dread blapps there too.

This idea is to give some reward to risking lowsec through trade. When u make a counter arguement, it is your job to provide examples and not just your feelings and the misconceptions you have about how things currently work.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#508 - 2013-05-23 09:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Mike Voidstar wrote:


Ignorance.



YOU don't like low sec despite never having done any kind of pvp at any point. You complain about the risks, being totally ignorant to how negligible they actually are. Stop complaining about pirates doing what is only the most rational choice in the current game, shooting what they can. Although the only thing they can shoot are things that DO shoot back, why? Because anyone with half a brain knows exactly how not to die, its utterly trivial. Not to mention you still have no reason to utilize low sec afterwards for making isk!

Also WHO CARES ABOUT MOVING YOUR PVE SHIP? THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO DO IT, ZIP. ZERO. NADA. Did you know that according to a CCP survey (which if you ask I will link) most players like to Pvp more than pve? Yet you would want to take away gameplay from those people so you can move your ship somewhere else to do the exact same missions as where it already is? In fact what your saying is an insigfuckignificant part of your gameplay, should stand in the way of a total revolution for low sec that may make it the most fun part of the game?

OH! You agree their is no good reason to go into low sec when you can just play afk in hisec!

Hah! Then you have the balls to say that pirates only shoot things that don't shoot back! It has been months since the last time I saw a indy ship in low sec that didn't cloak. Last time I killed a missioner I was drunk and had probes on him for 5 minutes and burned at him from 100km! If anything the only people pirates shoot is other pirates. As you said yourself their is no reason to go into low sec, even for people who like to pvp other than for the soul purpose of pvp. You talk like the moment you jump into low sec the pirates will pounce on you, utterly hillarious from someone who doesn't know at all what they are talking about.

I don't care you don't pvp FYI, just that you think it means we shouldn't pvp because it gets in the way of moving your billion isk mission boat.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#509 - 2013-05-23 11:52:05 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
stuffs


freighters take a while to get anywhere and they cannot cloak. it would become impractical to use them for trading between empires. The rewards for trading in another empire would be insignificant because of jump freighters and cyno alts.

besides from kill board padding and raising the entry level for inter-empire trading (but not the rewards), i dnt see what this change would do.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#510 - 2013-05-23 12:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
stuffs


freighters take a while to get anywhere and they cannot cloak. it would become impractical to use them for trading between empires. The rewards for trading in another empire would be insignificant because of jump freighters and cyno alts.

besides from kill board padding and raising the entry level for inter-empire trading (but not the rewards), i dnt see what this change would do.

let's picture how trad would change if all 4 empires were seperated by a few lowsec systems:

1- using freighters for cross empire would become VERY risky, to a point were almost nobody would use them.

2- point above could be mitigated with emergent gameplay, organisation that one pay to ensure a safe trip in this lowsec pipe, wether you pay local pirates, or a protection against said pirates.

3- most would probably use JF then, requiring a bit more organisation, and making exporting stuff a bit more expansive, due to fuel cost + lowered cargo size / trip


the result of all this would be that it cost much to acquire good coming from other empires, while the "local" goods would be cheaper than in any other empire, promoting the use of local goods, thus local production

this would really bring the 4 main hubs to be real hubs, unlike the current situation

i think this would be good for the game, maybe i'm wrong, but that is what i think

and last but not least, this would really help with the overcrowded Jita, spreading the ppl over the 4 hubs a bit more
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#511 - 2013-05-23 12:42:46 UTC
i'd expect the effects on markets to be more trivial than u'd expect.

as for escortng freighters through low sec, u'd need friends that would do it for a very small payment. most of the time it will be either more worthwhile for them to do something else, ur u'd have to pay them so much it wouldn't be worth ur while running the gauntlet.

and when ppl say it promotes PvP and such and such a survey says most ppl like PvP, so would making NPC corps deccable and forcing ppl to stay in corp during the duration of a dec. in fact, i'd bet a great many of those involved in the survey would not consider waiting around in low sec for a freighter 'real' PvP.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
#512 - 2013-05-23 17:38:10 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
[quote=Xavier Thorm]The statement that no one would be forced into lowsec is disingenuous. While technically true, it does seek to remove all other reasonable options for a variety of playstyles. You can go through lowsec, probably with much smaller and/or more expensive ships, or go through wormholes with no idea where you will come out and potentially as great a risk in getting shot and losing cargo. That's just hauling, its intended victim. For others... The reasoning that I should not need to run damsel for all 4 empires is silly. What if I do? What if that's what I enjoy in the sandbox? Why curtail my ability to move to another empire in a PvE ship just to suit the tastes of some gatecamping pirates?


Don't confuse the concept of a sandbox with 'I should be able to play exactly as I want with no interference'. Your play style exists (and the playstyles of other players that may be in opposition to yours) because, over time, the parameters of the game have allowed it and encouraged it to exist. This thread suggests a change that would alter the parameters by which playstyles exist again.

I think the current setup of the central high sec hub, followed by rings of low and then null sec likely was very appropriate when the game had only a fraction of the number of players as it has now. With more players now there is far more potential to split the empires and introduce new content for those who can take advantage of the divide by trade or by force.

Love the idea.
Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#513 - 2013-05-23 17:53:30 UTC
Ooooo yay another reason for packs of eve noobs to blob up on a gate and sit there all day just what eve needs -_-


Counter Idea:

Make high sec less profitable and low sec more profitable


ooo wait they are already trying to do that ;) NM someone at CCP must have half a brain after all ;)
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#514 - 2013-05-23 18:42:32 UTC
Sorana Bonzari wrote:
Ooooo yay another reason for packs of eve noobs to blob up on a gate and sit there all day just what eve needs -_-


Counter Idea:

Make high sec less profitable and low sec more profitable


ooo wait they are already trying to do that ;) NM someone at CCP must have half a brain after all ;)

If noobs blop up on a gate wont someone show up to shoot them?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#515 - 2013-05-23 18:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sorana Bonzari
ok ok that was a cheap shot but because you are so persistent I will give you 1 reason why this isent going to happen any time soon.

CCP has already stated that prices are nearly out of control. AKA they are to high and need to go down for it to be viable for new players entering eve to have a smooth progression without a significant amount of grinding. With this in mind adding low sec between high sec sovereignty will cause a market reaction of items increasing in price because of the added risk to regional trade. Furthermore this will allow price fixers to better operate in this environment. For this reason until the market is back into CCP's "in control" parameters its not going to happen.


Edit
BTW I love noob gate camps I get lots of kills while kiting idiots ;)
Jacid
The Upside Down
#516 - 2013-05-23 19:21:13 UTC
Sorana Bonzari wrote:
ok ok that was a cheap shot but because you are so persistent I will give you 1 reason why this isent going to happen any time soon.

CCP has already stated that prices are nearly out of control. AKA they are to high and need to go down for it to be viable for new players entering eve to have a smooth progression without a significant amount of grinding. With this in mind adding low sec between high sec sovereignty will cause a market reaction of items increasing in price because of the added risk to regional trade. Furthermore this will allow price fixers to better operate in this environment. For this reason until the market is back into CCP's "in control" parameters its not going to happen.


Edit
BTW I love noob gate camps I get lots of kills while kiting idiots ;)



Prices aren't high actually.. if you look at the price on trit, drakes, and talos over the last year the prices are pretty much the same thing last year they are this year..

Its a novel idea to put lowsec inbetween the 4 empires
Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#517 - 2013-05-23 20:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sorana Bonzari
Jacid wrote:



Prices aren't high actually.. if you look at the price on trit, drakes, and talos over the last year the prices are pretty much the same thing last year they are this year..

Its a novel idea to put lowsec inbetween the 4 empires



I was quoting CCP about the prices its not my option so in regards about how CCP feels about the prices its not up for debate, thus this change will not happen untill prices are within CCP's standards.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#518 - 2013-05-23 21:21:20 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

EvE is an odd game half way between industry and shooter. The regular denizens of lowsec treat it as a pure shooter, sort of a battlefield in space, only with easier targets that can't shoot back.


If you'd actually been to lowsec even once, you would have noticed the impressive amount of control towers and player owned customs offices. Moon goo and PI, both features that marry combat with industry, and require teamwork. Stuff what this game is all about.

Probably bit hard for someone with your attitude to accept, but the low/null/wh players you so desperately try to insult enjoy all aspects of EVE.

Open mind is a sharp mind.

.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#519 - 2013-05-23 21:25:55 UTC
Not reading 26 pages of this horrible idea.
But did anyone already mention the fact that new players need to travel between all empires. Sisters of Eve Epic Arc ya know.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#520 - 2013-05-23 21:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Not reading 26 pages of this horrible idea.
But did anyone already mention the fact that new players need to travel between all empires. Sisters of Eve Epic Arc ya know.

Oh, what a terrible loss.

Im sure thousands of players will quit because they didn't get to shoot little red boxes in 4 different background types. I am sure the buggy epic arcs that CCP cares so much about with BPCs that can't even be used matter so much to the NPE.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.