These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Gallente L3 PvE Mission Ship Thoughts?

Author
Vaihto Ehto
#21 - 2013-05-23 13:26:24 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Cap boosted mission fits are terrible. No exceptions (unless you really have to have a 100mn MWD in a level 4 boat, perhaps).


according to whom?

you?


I'm too lazy to include the proper references to peer reviewed articles right now.

Why would you not use an alt to post on the forums?

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-05-23 13:29:16 UTC
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Cap boosted mission fits are terrible. No exceptions (unless you really have to have a 100mn MWD in a level 4 boat, perhaps).


according to whom?

you?


I'm too lazy to include the proper references to peer reviewed articles right now.


You mean you're too lazy to go that extra 10% to make your ship better because it's too much effort/beyond your piloting skills to manage your cap properly.
Vaihto Ehto
#23 - 2013-05-23 13:37:07 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Cap boosted mission fits are terrible. No exceptions (unless you really have to have a 100mn MWD in a level 4 boat, perhaps).


according to whom?

you?


I'm too lazy to include the proper references to peer reviewed articles right now.


You mean you're too lazy to go that extra 10% to make your ship better because it's too much effort/beyond your piloting skills to manage your cap properly.


I thought cap boosters are for people who don't know how to manage cap. What?

In my opinion, the extra cost/hassle of needing cap booster charges is not worth the questinable benefit a booster might bring. Your mileage might vary, of course.

Why would you not use an alt to post on the forums?

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-05-23 13:47:07 UTC
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Cap boosted mission fits are terrible. No exceptions (unless you really have to have a 100mn MWD in a level 4 boat, perhaps).


according to whom?

you?


I'm too lazy to include the proper references to peer reviewed articles right now.


You mean you're too lazy to go that extra 10% to make your ship better because it's too much effort/beyond your piloting skills to manage your cap properly.


I thought cap boosters are for people who don't know how to manage cap. What?

In my opinion, the extra cost/hassle of needing cap booster charges is not worth the questinable benefit a booster might bring. Your mileage might vary, of course.


oh no the whole 7000 isk I spend on a 800 booster when I can hardly use 10 per mission I run.

It's no hassle at all. Cap is low, press cap booster. Repeat if necessary. If you can't do that then I don't know what to say....

Also the benefits of using a cap booster FAR outweigh the drawbacks, you free up an enormous amount of slots on your ship just by fitting that one simple thing to your ship and all you have to remember is press a button while fighting once in a while (if you even need to).

Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#25 - 2013-05-23 13:54:09 UTC
Jester Cap wrote:
Well if you want staying power on low SP:

Myrmidon for Serpentis NPCs

5x 720mm 'Scout' Artillery I

10MN Afterburner I
Drone Navigation Computer I
3x Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array

Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
2x Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
2x Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Drone Damage Amplifier I

2x Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

5x Hammerhead I


I'd say this fit is probably your best one to start out on. It IS overtanked though. As you skill up and become more confident you should start dropping down the tank and adding drone damage amplifiers. I would also highly recommend that you get the skills to fully T2 tank this before moving up in ships.

Your next ships after this one as far as drone ships can vary quite a bit. Your best bet would be a Dominix with sentry drones. You could also run an Ishtar (T2 cruiser) in low or null sec space.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/

Jester Cap
A better day
#26 - 2013-05-23 17:55:09 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

oh no the whole 7000 isk I spend on a 800 booster when I can hardly use 10 per mission I run.

It's no hassle at all. Cap is low, press cap booster. Repeat if necessary. If you can't do that then I don't know what to say....

Also the benefits of using a cap booster FAR outweigh the drawbacks, you free up an enormous amount of slots on your ship just by fitting that one simple thing to your ship and all you have to remember is press a button while fighting once in a while (if you even need to).


My Cap Injected Domi agrees with this statement.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-05-23 18:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Bael McVaeden wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on a good Gallente L3 mission ship?

My problem is that I am struggling with my current Myrmidon build because I can't quite handle L3s. I can do them but it is quite slow, and I have to warp out to repair my ship and warp back in. I find that I just run lots of L2s because its easier, but the payout is a lot slower.

I have worked my skills up in drones (although I don't have them max'd, and can't do Sentries yet) and armor tanking. I would like keep with Gallente because I don't want to shift gears into missles or anything else. I have mainly focused on hybrid turrets as well, so that is why I run with rails.


Here is my Myrm build (its sort of all over the place):

250mm Protoype Gauss Gun I
250mm Protoype Gauss Gun I
250mm Protoype Gauss Gun I
250mm Protoype Gauss Gun I

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Medium Ld-Acid Capacitor Battery I
Medium Hull Repairer

800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates
Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Limited Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Medium 'Accomodation' Vestment Reconstructor I
Damage Control II

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Drones: I usually keep quite a few drones and run with 2 Hobgoblins, 2 Hammerheads, and 1 Acolyte. Or will toss in some lights, or heavies depending on what target I have locked and how close I am.


Yesterday I found a Brutix build on EVE mon that was recommended, but I thought I would ask others what they thought of my build first, or if you had any suggestions before I jump to a different ship.

Thanks for the help!




For lvl3's and above actually drones are not really really awesome these days because of mission rats AI changes that require strong Drone skills and a good knowledge of mission specifics.
However, T2 light drones are not an option no matter if you use guns or missiles, get all drone support at 4 and lights 5+ specs at 4 at least for hobgos and caldari ones (can't remember the name) for the moment.

Then the gunnery route is a huge patience route to take carefully, as it is Mechanics and Engineering or Electronics one.

First you'll need decent tank skills and then guns skills, support skills at 5 for hybrids are not an option, T2 gun specs at lvl4 are not an option neither then add ships type training at 4 at least, 5 being of course a must have.

An active tanking Brutix with 250's can do every lvl3 without a problem and this will get easier as your training skills will get stronger but you might as well ask yourself is it the best option, the best training path on the long run?

Thing you need to realize is that bigger doesn't mean better. You could be doing lvl3's with an active tanking Enyo (T2 ship) and fully T2 fitted before you become effective with your Brutix or Myrmidon, plus this would open new perspectives to your gaming experience as PVP with rather cheapo throwaway T1 frigates but T2 fitted that are totally awesome.

By their specific agility maneuverability and often generous firepower and tackle abilities this kind of ship opens to you new playgrounds like low sec and null sec whereas your rather slowish Brutix or Myrmidon will probably get gank a few gates later.

Just an opinion to make you think about it, will not pollute this thread with more fits that do not cover your immediate needs but goals on the medium/long run.

Edit: Tipia has a nice blog where you can find some short term training plans, those are wise and carefully thought to cover most aspects and needs for the new character, you should take a look at.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-05-23 20:21:36 UTC
Vaihto Ehto wrote:
Cap boosted mission fits are terrible. No exceptions (unless you really have to have a 100mn MWD in a level 4 boat, perhaps).


Right, because new players have all the capacitor skills at maximum and don't need to devote more slots to damage mods, or is it because new players are too stupid to figure out how to use them only when they're needed so as to not burn through charges way too fast?

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Also the benefits of using a cap booster FAR outweigh the drawbacks, you free up an enormous amount of slots on your ship just by fitting that one simple thing to your ship and all you have to remember is press a button while fighting once in a while (if you even need to).



On the flip side that doesn't work for every setup. Some builds don't have the fitting capacity to squeeze in a cap injector while others have low enough capacitor consumption that a triple ripple of CCCs is enough to meet most needs. My nightmare, for example, already packs enough damage and damage application modules that using rig slots for them would be a waste, and rig slots are not needed for tanking rigs. As such slapping in 3 CCCs works just fine. It also plays to the fact that sometimes, when I want to be really crazy, I armor tank it by not forcing me to tank one way or the other, or at all, on the ship.

Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

For lvl3's and above actually drones are not really really awesome these days because of mission rats AI changes that require strong Drone skills and a good knowledge of mission specifics.


All the NPC AI changes really require you to know is that NPC frigates (T1 and T2/"faction") and, at least theoretically as I've actually never seen it, T2/"faction" NPC cruisers will randomly target light drones and T1 cruisers and smaller will target medium drones while everything targets heavy drones and even though everything should target sentries half the time or more nothing does.
Jester Cap
A better day
#29 - 2013-05-24 00:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jester Cap
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

For lvl3's and above actually drones are not really really awesome these days because of mission rats AI changes that require strong Drone skills and a good knowledge of mission specifics.



Er no. My Mission (Navy) Domi wants to have a word with you. Drone boats are awesome. Selectable damage, awesome range and tracking. Excellent damage. No Cap use. No ammo use. Any drawbacks. Yes. if you are stupid and you send your heavies on assault frigs , they will die. (formerly when you had aggro heavies would chomp on frigs like Tyson on Holyfield without referee interference).

The AI change just means you can no longer set your drone boat on "orbit XYZ structure" (after you have taken the aggro) and then tell your drones to go play a little while you go and wax your candle 'browsing' your favourite website(s).

Yes, AFK missioning with drone boats is over. As intended. They are still my ship of choice for all missions. Granted, some of them now better with sentries rather than heavies, but still.

The Only downside (compared to turrets) is that support skills are obviously not shared amongst other weapon systems. But the same goes for rockets/missiles. While gunnery support skills are obviously shared amongst 3 turret systems.

But in my view anybody should have t2 meds with very good to excellent drone skills anyway.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-05-24 03:54:17 UTC
Jester Cap wrote:

Yes, AFK missioning with drone boats is over. As intended.


If CCP wanted to truly eliminate that then they wouldn't have put in the restrictions on AI targeting parameters that they did. As it currently stands you can AFK any mission once all the frigates are cleaned up and, possibly/probably, any T2/"faction" cruisers. Even non-drone ships can AFK most L4s with just 5 T2 lights if the rest of their drone skills are up to snuff. Granted it might take a rather long time, but they can AFK it. Lol
Jester Cap
A better day
#31 - 2013-05-24 04:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jester Cap
Shereza wrote:
Jester Cap wrote:

Yes, AFK missioning with drone boats is over. As intended.


If CCP wanted to truly eliminate that then they wouldn't have put in the restrictions on AI targeting parameters that they did. As it currently stands you can AFK any mission once all the frigates are cleaned up and, possibly/probably, any T2/"faction" cruisers. Even non-drone ships can AFK most L4s with just 5 T2 lights if the rest of their drone skills are up to snuff. Granted it might take a rather long time, but they can AFK it. Lol


Ok ok ok, then let me rephrase it. AFK missioning with droneboats has been "nerfed" to the point where it is still (semi) possible, but impractical. Where before all you needed to do was grab aggro, orbit structure, drop drones and off you go you little pacman critters you actually, NOW you gotta work a little before you can step away from the screen and let the drones kill off the remaining Battlecruisers and battleships.

Also, new spawn with frigs as part of it will kill your drones off in no time. So I would say the AI works as intended. Droneboats are still great mission ships, but you gotta pay attention to the point where it is not afk missioning anymore.

I think as it woks now, CCP did a good job.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-05-24 06:52:00 UTC
Jester Cap wrote:
Also, new spawn with frigs as part of it will kill your drones off in no time.


That's business as usual though.

Jester Cap wrote:
I think as it woks now, CCP did a good job.


I dunno about that. From what I've seen heavy drones are about useless in missions now while sentry drones really don't get hit all that often. In point of fact I believe I've seen battleships taking shots at heavies while not similarly doing so against sentries. I don't have a problem with limiting the effectiveness of AFK mission running, but the AI seems to treat heavies differently than sentries, and it creates a situation where heavy drones just aren't worth packing along while sentry drones are almost as good as ever.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-05-24 06:53:03 UTC
Shereza wrote:


On the flip side that doesn't work for every setup. Some builds don't have the fitting capacity to squeeze in a cap injector while others have low enough capacitor consumption that a triple ripple of CCCs is enough to meet most needs. My nightmare, for example, already packs enough damage and damage application modules that using rig slots for them would be a waste, and rig slots are not needed for tanking rigs. As such slapping in 3 CCCs works just fine. It also plays to the fact that sometimes, when I want to be really crazy, I armor tank it by not forcing me to tank one way or the other, or at all, on the ship.


Sorry but if you're not cap injecting your nightmare you're doing it wrong.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-05-24 10:36:22 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Sorry but if you're not cap injecting your nightmare you're doing it wrong.


Why? I don't need one to run my guns non-stop. Replacing a tank module (hardener or, when one is being used, an AB) with an injector results in a situation where I can easily need to use the booster more often than I otherwise would in exchange for being able to afford to run it more often. If I replace one of my damage application modules with an injector I'll see the same result as if I replaced a tank module, though obviously to a somewhat lesser degree.

If I don't need it to run the guns non-stop, and I don't need it to run the guns and booster long enough to whittle down incoming NPCs to the point where the booster is no longer as needed, just why do I need to fit an injector?

[Nightmare, Kindasorta]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II

Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Gist A-Type EM Ward Field
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II

Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Auto Targeting System II
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

KardelSharpeye
The Watchtower.
#35 - 2013-05-24 11:23:02 UTC
The whole point of the cap booster is that you can avoid all that X and A type stuff with a single module and instead invest the ISK in damage not making your ship a gank magnet while keeping excellent completion times. Cap boosters are awesome they free up so much slots.

As for the myrmidon fits everyone is suggesting most of them are overtanked and whoever suggested heavy drones for lvl 3's is very very wrong, most of the rats there are cruiser sized or less.

Oh and op don't fly a myrm without T2 lights/meds or at least train them up asap.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-05-24 12:53:35 UTC
Shereza wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Sorry but if you're not cap injecting your nightmare you're doing it wrong.


Why? I don't need one to run my guns non-stop. Replacing a tank module (hardener or, when one is being used, an AB) with an injector results in a situation where I can easily need to use the booster more often than I otherwise would in exchange for being able to afford to run it more often. If I replace one of my damage application modules with an injector I'll see the same result as if I replaced a tank module, though obviously to a somewhat lesser degree.

If I don't need it to run the guns non-stop, and I don't need it to run the guns and booster long enough to whittle down incoming NPCs to the point where the booster is no longer as needed, just why do I need to fit an injector?

[Nightmare, Kindasorta]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II

Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Gist A-Type EM Ward Field
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II

Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Auto Targeting System II
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I




Do you actually fly this?

Can anyone say gank magnet.....?
Bael McVaeden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-05-24 12:57:19 UTC
Thanks again for all the help everyone (even though the thread took a slight turn towards the end).

I trained up T2s and got some in the bay. I didn't have time to run a L3 last night, so I will let everyone know how it goes this weekend.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#38 - 2013-05-24 13:32:34 UTC
any mission (below lvl5) in game can be completed perfectly with a tengu.
You trained for wrong ship type.
Bael McVaeden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-05-24 13:36:53 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
any mission (below lvl5) in game can be completed perfectly with a tengu.
You trained for wrong ship type.

I agree, everyone tells me that. I wonder if they will ever nerfbat the Tengu...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-05-24 17:19:43 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
any mission (below lvl5) in game can be completed perfectly with a tengu.
You trained for wrong ship type.


completed yes

but the most efficient? Not by far.
Previous page123Next page