Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Wrong. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_CLlTV8bSxNMXRCcUxwZzJBWk0/edit?usp=sharing

There's the applied DPS against various Angel ships, which tend to be the worst case NPCs for high-sec missile using mission runners because Angel ships are small and fast.

And that's a problem that CCP should (and I think will) fix. The whole point of Marauders is supposed to be PVE, at least that's what CCP said when they introduced them. And for every other race except caldari, Marauders are superior to navy ships in most ways . Who would take a (current) navy mega over a Khronos if they could fly it, for example. The ONLY ships that (imo) should challenge Marauders are Pirate BSs.

I just won't miss the old CNR/Golem overlap. The new CNR is a start, but for me to go from new CNR to Golem, CCP would have to do something about TP juggling, defender missile vulnerability, scan res and sig radius. The Marauders got all these built in handicaps to keep them from being over powered, but underpowered is bad too.

When I've been able to get on sisi I've been having a blast with the new CNR. I'm sorry you guys aren't, but hey EVE has plenty of ships to choose from (lol).

More seriously, other than resistance to change I can't see why a few of you are hating on the CNR so much, it's performed well for me every time on the Test server and if they get around to actually fixing the FoFs on sis I expect even more awesomeness. It presents problems (i like to fit a cloak in null), but everything in EVE is a trade off, right?

It doesnt really work in game because TODAYS fleet typhoon has no odyssey cruise missiles, has no 6 launchers and has 1 midslot less. There is absolutely no point to bother with ship that has maybe 50 more dps than cnr, but half of it cant hit past 40-50k.

After the buff it will have more missile dps than cnr, good enough projection and much better drone dps. And that 300 more dps will be absolutely worth some "piloting effort" (read : except hitting f1-f3 you will do f1-f3 and occasional babysitting of drones).

As I said and other people pointed out, tank is more than viable for l4s, without crystals or any magical piloting experience. All it takes is look at eve survival (once per mission), load right drones and missiles and you are good. And noone forces you to fit 3 slot tank - if you want go 4 slot or 5 slot, its unlikely you will be shooting anything smaller than bs/bc with cruises anyway with 400+ sentry dps. And if you do, that dps advantage will make up for the most of the damage lost by sig/speed penalty.

And the most important thing - if fleet phoon pilot feels like he is "hardcore or 1337" , he can just switch to target painters (hardmode) and completely annihilate any other missile ships in killspeed. If you want to do that in cnr, you are out of luck. Cnr cant do it because, well, it is "easymode" noobship that doesnt reward any piloting effort. Train for master race, only one getting ships that reward piloting effort.

Btw you know what is really funny? In "t1 amarr bs thread" here in features and ideas some other minmatar fanboy posted pve abaddon with 3 slot 189dps tank (not even capstable unless you werent using guns at all) and was defending it to blood just to prove that lasers dont need cap reduction and amarr battleships more capacitor. Really funny how just another "forumwarrioring objective" changes the need for tank in eyes of some people. Well yea, fanboy logic...


You are clueless, stop posting. Marauders were obviously intended to give up some of the dps for their specialization bonus.
Cnr always outdpsed golem thanks to rof bonus, but golem offered salvaging and looting on the go.
Nightmare (amarr faction ships just cant fit tachs at all so are completely out) always outdpsed paladin because of tracking bonus, but pally offered salvaging and looting on the go.
Mach (and tfi) always outdpsed vargur thanks to raw dps bonus, but vargur offered offered salvaging and looting on the go.
Same for domi, navy domi, navy mega, vindi and kronos.
Oh and if cnr is the start that will make all marauders superior to navy, then why is navy mega buffed to the point it will outdamage kronos even more and fleet phoon to the point it will absolutely laugh at vargur?

So except cnr, which will be simply outclassed by golem in every way, it will stay so even after the expansion - marauders will keep their salvage and loot advantage and faction/pirate its killspeed advantage. Only thing Im not sure about official reasoning - it is "it would be too op" (doesnt apply to minmatar ships ofc) or it is designed as "easymode" noobship that doesnt reward any piloting skill because caldari are carebear race


And I thought there can be no more easymode ship than cnr.
Thank you ccp, we need more easymode ships so we can fly through universe with no effort and piloting skill.

How exactly is that a problem? Please explain it to me, CNR has less tank, damage application and lacks the looting&salvaging ability.

What is your take on the TFI vs Vargur then? Since CCP is still pushing it they don't seem to have a problem with navy ship performing better on dps area.

Even after the great SNI fit and damage application maths done you still do not see the problem? Really?

You are blind, inept or both.

He is spamming bullshit like usually. As I already mentioned, t2 ships dont have to be necessarily better than even vanilla t1 hulls. They are specialized, they have their niche - for blackops its jumping/bridging bonus, for hics its bubbling, for logis it is repping, for recons is cloaking and ewar, for inties its long point etc.

According to him marauders specialization is "pve." By this logic every other t2 ship that is specialized in pvp (basically rest of the ships) should be plain better than anything t1 or navy in every possible way.

I hope it is clear to everyone but him, that it isnt so. Marauders simply have their "loot as you go" advantage and changes (or that nothing changed) in other races bs lineups prove, that navy raven losing all its advantages over golem is just anomaly created by some unexperienced "ship designer" (and odyssey fleet phoon is just child of some overzelous minmatar fanboy).

As it should, it's a Tech 1 navy BS. The problem in the past is that the CNR was a viable alternative (in pve) to a ship that should rule caldari/missile PVE (The Golem). CCP pre-nerfed the marauders too much, but it was mostly felt by the caldari ship users.




Same as i told the other guy, none of us know what they will do with the marauders so the TFI having a temporary advantage doesn't mean anything. Now, after they rebalance the maruaders and the TFI is still better, than you can draw conclusions about CCP's intent.



See Stoicfaux's analysis. The CNR has some advantages the SNI can't really match, and you can tell this flying the 2 ships on sisi (in high end PVE which is my focus, pvp is another matter but I don't pvp in navy ships).

The only problem is a problem of taste. The CNR is fine by me. I think adaptable and creative Navy Raven pilots will like it as I do, while the more conservative and resistant to change pilots won't. That's just how EVe works.

Putting 3 sentries on the CNR means you don't have space for other drones and will have to kill the frigs with missiles. Which will be slow. That TP falloff won't really end up as a problem since all the rats will come to you.
Looting and salvaging is in my opinion the main selling point of the ship. It will save much more time for you than little extra dps.


That is true and TFI would still outperform it on dps thanks to drones but who would put autocannons on it when cruises are this good?

Someone is mighty butt hurt for some reason.

We get it, you don't like the new CNR. That's tough. Don't fly it after June 4th.

I think it's fine and prefer it to the other ships people keep mentioning. Somehow you seem to feel like CCP is taking something away from you. Maybe so, but you'll really just need to get over that.

CNR has 100m3 dronebay. It's not changing in Odyssey.



Not true[1]. EFT's DPS chart would seem to say the RF Ammo Vargur is better against a 575m sized Golem moving perpendicular at 131m/s. Even with 3 TCs and 2x TPs on the TFI.

With bouncers, there's a ~40 DPS difference at 12.5km and ~335 DPS difference at 61km (which is right outside of drone control range.)

In other words, it's worth investigating fittings and doing a proper comparison between the TFI and Vargur. I won't have time to do so though.

On a side note, the Cruise Missile TFI is doing a flat 925 DPS of applied missile damage.


[1] in a very limited situation. ;-)

....And some of us don't salvage/loot.



That's ccp's choice, and while I'd abuse it, I don't think it's the best idea. Better would be to bring the Floon back down to earth a bit. The idea is what's best for the game's balance, not what I would like personally (because personally i'd like a CNR with citidel torps , a bomber like power grid bonus so they would fit, and a 400% TP bonus for the CNR lol).



Yea, it's flat out better in the worst case scenarios i've put it in (Tank is nice but SNI had a harder time with the whole GTFO thing in plexes and lvl 5s). What are to you "tiny" advantages are to me the difference between a popped ship and survival. That's why I like the new CNR concept, it has a proper place in the t1/navy/t2 line up and it works the way I need it to when it counts.