EVE General Discussion

I'm not wholly against skills simply acting as a prerequisite differentiator, though in the case of EVE it's probably way too late to make such a change.

But even then, though the OP may be a troll, people like him do actually exist, and they'd find something else to whine about. They always do.

First: Nice trolling.

Still, this (the highlighted part) is where you're wrong as nobody can train a skill higher than lv5.
If a 5 year old player has trained Minmatar frigate to lv5 and you do the same, you are both (SP wice) eaqually good at flying that ship.
Granted, he will have have a lot of other skills that help him fit his ship better but he can still only train those skills to lv5, so eventually you will catch up. In the mean time, you might still be able to beat him as pvp in Eve has little to do with SP. It has all to do with knowledge. The Knowledge of how to pvp in Eve style.

This mean knowing how to use the tool (ship) you have at your disposal to hit your opponent at his weakest point. Knowing about fall off, transversal, kitting and a bunch of other stuff. Knowing when to fight and when to run and most importent - how to manually pilot your ship in relation to your apponent.

Think most players that come to the forums and complain about, not being able to pilot the ships personally (from the bridge) and want Eve to be a game where you do "dogfighting" type of pvp, has the same hole in their knowledge about what makes Eve pvp tick.

Sure thing, he might have better skills than you and have better modules on his ship but rest assure, that do NOT mean he knows how to fit his new ship or how to use it in a pvp situation.

Don't give up. Try and try again and everytime - learn from your experience.
Learning in a personal matter (not SP wice) is what makes a good Eve player.

Mu. That has pretty much nothing to do with what I said. In fact, what on earth are you talking about?

Also, by design, there is pretty much zero power creep with the EVE skill system.

No, he'd complain just the same because the causes for his assumed problem still exist (well… they exist in his head, not in the game). That's the problem with fantastical claims based on nothing but assumptions and ignorance.

The simple fact of the matter is that the OP is wrong and refuses to actually check whether any of what he believes is true. The solution to that problem is for the OP to realise facts and stop being wrong, not to arbitrarily change the game for no good reason.

Let's have fun with numbers:
· 553 DPS and 23.2k EHP can be had for 8M SP
· 648 DPS and 23.7k EHP can be had for 34M SP (same ship and skills as above, just more SP).
· 1106 DPS and 46.4k EHP can be had for 16M SP (same ship and skills as above, but 2v1).

Conclusion: OP is… let's be very very charitable and just call it misinformed rather than what it really should be called if we were being honest.

Can't say I disagree with the OP. But then I think EvE's counterintuitive formula is what makes it somewhat successful as a PvP game.

The biggest fears in other PvP games are "Pay to Win", "Gear Gap", and large disparity in SP (XP) levels between new and old players, where new players will never catch the old players. EvE embraces all of these.

The reason I think the formula is successful is because, contrary to what people say, hardly anyone really wants a fair fight.

Screw fair. At least give me a chance. I've never seen a single chance to beat higher SP player is a combat situation (I refuse to call barge ganks, blob ganks, and gate camps PvP).

Reserved. (double post)

…except that you don't need more SP to have “better” ships. In fact, you can have fewer, and worse ships if all you have is more SP.

Fixed. Outflying, outgunning, and generally out-killing people with higher SP is done on a daily basis. Largely because a sever SP deficit doesn't matter much — the game mechanics ensure this.

You already have it.

I remember very clearly the moment when I realized that regardless of how many birthdays I had I was never going to catch up to my older brother. This seemed like an incredibly poor way to run things to me at the time. Granted I was 5. I soon realized that this might be rectified should he die. Though frequently angry with him, I decided formulating plans along these lines might not be the best idea.

I think there are many games that provide an even playing field, immediately and in every occurrence of the game in terms of mechanics. Arcade fighting games are an example of these. They are usually pretty short games, played repeatedly, until that becomes intolerably boring or a new one replaces them.

Like when I was 5, I experience something about the frustration of having toyed with this game when it first came out, having been unable to continue it that time, and now wanting to play... Hence finding myself with the constructed illusion of 'being behind' as if someone else had done all this to me.

Though some aspect of the condition is true, I think it is a false impression. It relies on a few assumptions that seem iffy to me. It constrains the notion of PvP to a one on one, ship to ship conflict... Like an arcade game. Being a noob and all I could be wrong, but this does not seem to me at the center of what EVE is about.

I also wonder about examples of MMO's where the OP thinks this condition about which OP is complaining does not exist? Often an MMO will introduce a new 'race' or class as part of an expansion which is designed to allow new players to 'catch up' in some way. The very first EQ expansion was intended to do this. Of course this pissed off the established player base. There were others who simply played the new 'races' and classes and beat up on new players anyway. My own experience is that such moves usually dilute the game and begin a kind of horrible regression of challenging play in the game. For the most part I think what then OP is complaining about exists in all other MMO's. Because they usually have level caps, it is encountered in lesser and different ways.

I also think what the OP is suggesting is simply not true. Go sort through the Belligerent Undesirables site. One of the things you will find is many examples of BU players spawning new alts and at just a few weeks into the game reeking havoc. Some of this is awoxing and such, but there are also examples of very low SP alts simply tearing through a variety of higher SP, superior ship opponents. It is interesting. It is based on that the player has a vastly superior understanding of the mechanics and such things as piloting.

Additionally, I suspect there is an SP threshold where my investment in ship to ship skills starts to flatten out in terms of in-game effect. Skills start to be about command ships and very specialized roles, etc., etc. It would be interesting to see this plotted. These specialized roles, meant for fleet doctrines and such, do not function the same way in single ship to ship conflicts. If true, this means we get more effect per SP early on if we are not imagining fighting our Frigate against a T3 ship and such, and it is therefore possible to 'catch up' to some extent.

I simply assume that I am now always at a disadvantage and that this is not likely to change greatly. In that disadvantage I fear the experienced pilot over the SP pilot. OP could test this out by using the CCP mechanism fully in place for this. OP could simply go buy a high SP character in the bazaar. The cost represents the amount of time that the seller has invested (and which the buyer has not). OP could then take out their shiny new SP monster and would presumably win almost every fight. Presumably they might see some difference, but if you scour the forums you will find examples of people who have done this who are mightily confused about how they possibly could have lost in some situation. You have to look for a gap between their SP and knowledge of the game, represented by the questions they are asking.

Knowing it is trolling doesn't mean you do not answer. There are newbie-lurkers who'll get the wrong impression if troll isn't properly debunked.