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Extra materials in bpos
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tim yang
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-05-22 07:08:40 UTC
Why is their such a huge amount of extra material requirements in my perfect research bpos?

Does this have something to do with Odyssey?

my procurer is going from 511 isogen to 27491.....
Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#2 - 2013-05-22 07:36:31 UTC
tim yang wrote:
Why is their such a huge amount of extra material requirements in my perfect research bpos?

Does this have something to do with Odyssey?

my procurer is going from 511 isogen to 27491.....


I the whole thing on accident. Probably all of it.

yes
Melikora Yotosala
Lethal Devotion
Escalation Theory
#3 - 2013-05-22 07:49:06 UTC
This is CCP's way to increase the manufacturing cost without allowing to build the ships before patch and than refine them to more minerals than they were originally made.
Battleships are going to get it next with the next patch.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2013-05-22 08:52:51 UTC
tim yang wrote:
Why is their such a huge amount of extra material requirements in my perfect research bpos?

Does this have something to do with Odyssey?

my procurer is going from 511 isogen to 27491.....



You haven't updated your spreadsheets in a while, have you?


The Procurer was changed almost 9 months ago with the rest of the mining barges, using "Extra Materials" that are unrecoverable by reprocessing to increase the build cost without creating an enormous fountain of magical free minerals.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-05-22 16:06:21 UTC
They still sell for about 1/3 the cost to build them because of the surplus ones made last year... don't bother until 2018 or so.
Saleani Tsolyani
Bey Su
#6 - 2013-05-22 17:27:03 UTC
Procurers sell for about 1/3-1/2 the cost of minerals to make them right now. The changes were made back in August 2012 when the mining barge change went into effect.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ship-balancing-mining-barges/

Frigates, Cruisers and Battlecruisers have had their "tiercide" rebalancing done to them. Battleships get done with Odyssey (June 4) along with skills.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-great-skill-change-of-blessed-2013/

Retrievers are currently profitable (this means that the tens of thousands built last summer have all been blown up or turned into Mackinaws), so if you'd like to buy some of my retriever BPC, I have them in 1 and 10 run copies available in beautiful downtown Amarr.
UKBigWolf
#7 - 2013-05-22 20:13:30 UTC
Hopefully they'll get merged eventually
IIRC, ME levels don't affect those extra materials either
Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-05-23 13:57:26 UTC
In my opinion, there should be an ongoing process, either daily, weekly, monthly or whatever, but not restricted to major expansions, to address the extra materials issue. Each item's extra materials would be reduced and the normal materials increased, such that the total value of the non-extra materials is equivalent to the average sales price of the item.

The extra materials may be a necessary part of tiericide/rebalancing, but they should be removed as soon as possible.
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
#9 - 2013-05-23 21:57:20 UTC
Manny Moons wrote:
In my opinion, there should be an ongoing process, either daily, weekly, monthly or whatever, but not restricted to major expansions, to address the extra materials issue. Each item's extra materials would be reduced and the normal materials increased, such that the total value of the non-extra materials is equivalent to the average sales price of the item.

The extra materials may be a necessary part of tiericide/rebalancing, but they should be removed as soon as possible.



This is my greatest fear of the industry. It stifles reprocessing factors and insurance mechanics and makes a mock of the BPO's ME.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#10 - 2013-05-24 07:26:09 UTC
I too would like to be able to cash in on my huge stockpile of ships made before the materials went up, especially those selling for below the prechange prices....


[/sarcasm]

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
PrimalParadox
Black Market Ops
#11 - 2013-06-20 04:54:50 UTC
Seems completely nuts to have to train up all these skills and do all the research, investing countless hours of real world time and effort just to have ccp come in and tell us to "get stuffed those skills and research will be completely useless until we decide materials wont magically appear or disappear" (read: never)

aka these last few years of your time and money you spent on eve are now useless for the foreseeable future.

Great work ccp, it seems you regularly try to make all your customers rage quit.
Xintri Ra'Virr
Yamaguchi-Gumi
#12 - 2013-06-20 06:50:11 UTC
tim yang wrote:
Why is their such a huge amount of extra material requirements in my perfect research bpos?

Does this have something to do with Odyssey?

my procurer is going from 511 isogen to 27491.....


Eve Online is 10 years old game. Most players are filthy rich and its just a CCP's way to regulate inflation very poorly implemented IMO.
In the same time CCP is trying to make the lives of those who choose play the game for free more difficult by simply making all things more and more expensive.
PrimalParadox
Black Market Ops
#13 - 2013-06-20 08:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: PrimalParadox
Xintri Ra'Virr wrote:
tim yang wrote:
Why is their such a huge amount of extra material requirements in my perfect research bpos?

Does this have something to do with Odyssey?

my procurer is going from 511 isogen to 27491.....


Eve Online is 10 years old game. Most players are filthy rich and its just a CCP's way to regulate inflation very poorly implemented IMO.
In the same time CCP is trying to make the lives of those who choose play the game for free more difficult by simply making all things more and more expensive.


Honestly i think that this and adding the plex as an ingame item was foolish, it forces ccp to manage a economy thats supposed to be player driven removing any realism or real world stratagems. In doings so they're screwing miners, manufacturers and damn near everything but ccp's all time favourite, pvp.

Is disappointing but unfortunately understandable except in doing all this it seems they completely over looked how badly it screws any new players coming in wanting to do anything but pvp

i.e. my new manufacturing toon cant manufacture anything without throwing away his ISK.
Ylariana
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-20 10:01:51 UTC
While I understand why they did this, imo it would have made FAR more sense to change the Base figures to the new values and describe the extra minerals as what they are "Unrecoverable Materials should you Reprocess the item"

Yes I am just that lazy. Having to add up all the mineral values to build the thing before planning how many runs to make shouldnt require this much math.
It would be far simpler to just have the Total Mineral cost listed, with the unrecoverables mentioned as a non-manufacturing element of the BP.

It would also allow for the opportunity for LOLs at the expense of people who didnt see the Unrecoverables section of the BP when they go to melt their stuff.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#15 - 2013-06-20 10:57:18 UTC
PrimalParadox wrote:
i.e. my new manufacturing toon cant manufacture anything without throwing away his ISK.


You're not doing your research then.

I've got characters quite happily making T1 products, at a acceptable isk/hr to feed into my T2 business.

If the isk/hr wasn't acceptable, I'd be buying them off the market. More often than not, I'm manufacturing them.


Or are you complaining that you can't make a profit with a Production Efficiency 0 character, with blueprints with no research on them.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#16 - 2013-06-20 18:51:22 UTC
Ylariana wrote:
While I understand why they did this, imo it would have made FAR more sense to change the Base figures to the new values and describe the extra minerals as what they are "Unrecoverable Materials should you Reprocess the item"

Yes I am just that lazy. Having to add up all the mineral values to build the thing before planning how many runs to make shouldnt require this much math.
It would be far simpler to just have the Total Mineral cost listed, with the unrecoverables mentioned as a non-manufacturing element of the BP.

It would also allow for the opportunity for LOLs at the expense of people who didnt see the Unrecoverables section of the BP when they go to melt their stuff.



Or, just run IPH, it will handily produce a shopping list which you can copy/paste to your notepad ingame, and also tell you whether it is profitable or not

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

brinelan
#17 - 2013-06-20 19:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: brinelan
PrimalParadox wrote:
In doings so they're screwing miners, manufacturers and damn near everything but ccp's all time favourite, pvp.

Is disappointing but unfortunately understandable except in doing all this it seems they completely over looked how badly it screws any new players coming in wanting to do anything but pvp

i.e. my new manufacturing toon cant manufacture anything without throwing away his ISK.


You do realize that this is a pvp game and most of us came here for pvp right... And without pvp there would be nobody to buy your manufactured items.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#18 - 2013-06-21 00:46:15 UTC
PrimalParadox wrote:
i.e. my new manufacturing toon cant manufacture anything without throwing away his ISK.


There are tons of profitable things to manufacture. Just absurd amounts. I think you may just be bad at math.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Nerdy McButtHurt Trald
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-06-21 11:33:33 UTC
Go and research Insurance Exchange Rate, Mineral Basket.

You will then begin to understand that reprocessing was one of the biggest money making occupations in the game.
CCP didn't like people building ships to reprocess them or have them exploded by the station guns.
tikiana
Golden Eagle Research Corp
#20 - 2013-06-22 00:23:33 UTC
brinelan wrote:
PrimalParadox wrote:
In doings so they're screwing miners, manufacturers and damn near everything but ccp's all time favourite, pvp.

Is disappointing but unfortunately understandable except in doing all this it seems they completely over looked how badly it screws any new players coming in wanting to do anything but pvp

i.e. my new manufacturing toon cant manufacture anything without throwing away his ISK.


You do realize that this is a pvp game and most of us came here for pvp right... And without pvp there would be nobody to buy your manufactured items.


and in the same though you do realise that if we didn't make stuff you wouldn't have stuff to blow up right? Remove mining and manufacturing from the game and all ships and all modules would have to be more or less free and the so called *hardcore pvps* would be left holding something hardcore