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problems with Drones

Author
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#1 - 2013-05-21 13:35:13 UTC
with the changes to the AI on how NPC's choose targets has made it a challenge for dedicated drone boats,

many have posted about it already, so I will not get into that,

here is an idea

all dedicated drone boats get an additional bonus
Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to Shield Transport, 1000% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range

this would allow dedicated drone boats to fit remote repair and repair drones during fights,

NOTE: I am not saying anything other then increasing the range of those specific items, no increase in amount or changes in CPU / PG or anything else like that, would not mind an additional high slot utility however, but can live with out it
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2013-05-21 14:34:08 UTC
700 dps logi cruisers that can rep and shoot at 70km

Fair and balanced

.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-05-21 14:37:55 UTC
battleship size logi ships

lawl
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#4 - 2013-05-21 14:47:33 UTC
will use my rattlesnake as an example

high slots
4x launchers
1x shield medium shield rep
1x drone link augmentor

I don't have the CPU to fit a large one
but I would be able to rep 192 shield hp out to 60km once every 4.5 sec (60km with the suggested role bonus)

and I definatly don't have the cap to run it constantly,

would allow me to do combat rep on drones during combat and bring back usefulness of drones in mission running ships
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-05-21 14:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Edwin McAlister wrote:
will use my rattlesnake as an example

high slots
4x launchers
1x shield medium shield rep
1x drone link augmentor

I don't have the CPU to fit a large one
but I would be able to rep 192 shield hp out to 60km once every 4.5 sec (60km with the suggested role bonus)

and I definatly don't have the cap to run it constantly,

would allow me to do combat rep on drones during combat and bring back usefulness of drones in mission running ships


Shocked just Shocked

Please go back under your bridge. Youve gone beyond a bad troll to just looking stupid

Edit: ok ok it looks like theres a chance your serious so i appologise if thats the case. Please take your idea out of the context your invisioning. Now put 50 domonix's in a fleet with no local reps and one massive crazy spider rep fleet...

No Worries

Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#6 - 2013-05-21 14:54:18 UTC
please clarify
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#7 - 2013-05-21 14:56:27 UTC
OP, the issue isn't how well you could repair drones with this, it's how well you could repair other ships. Logi cruisers would become useless and RR domis and geddons would be ridiculously overpowered.

thhief ghabmoef

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-05-21 14:56:57 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
please clarify


Edited post above ;)

No Worries

Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#9 - 2013-05-21 15:03:12 UTC
I just run a few variations of the dedicated drone ships thru EFT,

they don't have the cpu/grid to mount the larger remote reps, would mount small or medium only, and at most only one.
they are not cap stable, they would loose a high power slot to it thus a reduction in DPS (except the rattlesnake, it already has a utility high slot)

would not replace logi in any way, as there is no bonus to the amount repaired, and no bonus to fitting (reduced cpu/grid/cap requirements)
Anna Verhyldvar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-05-21 15:09:30 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
I just run a few variations of the dedicated drone ships thru EFT,

they don't have the cpu/grid to mount the larger remote reps, would mount small or medium only, and at most only one.
they are not cap stable, they would loose a high power slot to it thus a reduction in DPS (except the rattlesnake, it already has a utility high slot)

would not replace logi in any way, as there is no bonus to the amount repaired, and no bonus to fitting (reduced cpu/grid/cap requirements)

Even without the bonus you're mentioning, RR domis are already incredibly powerful. 2 domis can fit cap transfer arrays and remote repairers, and can EASILY clear all cosmic anomalies, and many of the higher exploration sites too (I've done Core Exile Drug Production facility with t1 hardeners fitted on both domis and mediocre drone/BS skills).

One RR ship is not cap stable. Two are.
Ginger Barbarella
#11 - 2013-05-21 15:11:44 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
with the changes to the AI on how NPC's choose targets has made it a challenge for dedicated drone boats,

many have posted about it already, so I will not get into that,

here is an idea

all dedicated drone boats get an additional bonus
Role Bonus: 1000% bonus to Shield Transport, 1000% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range

this would allow dedicated drone boats to fit remote repair and repair drones during fights,

NOTE: I am not saying anything other then increasing the range of those specific items, no increase in amount or changes in CPU / PG or anything else like that, would not mind an additional high slot utility however, but can live with out it


What?!?!! *looks around* "Does this guy not know what a Logistics boat is?"

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#12 - 2013-05-21 15:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Edwin McAlister
my attempt was to figure an alternative to the issue with drones boats on missions, the change in the AI used by rats has made drones boats have a much harder time of it. While I have no problems with the changes in the AI overall. I already use remote rep on drones, just have to call em back to orbit while I rep them.

I can not speak of the applications of said change as far as a pvp aspect goes, while I have done pvp, I don't actively seek it out, if it comes my way, I pop them or they pop me, oh well

yes, I do know what a logi is, my bro and I have duo'd using a pair of Basilisks

dedicated drone boats, from what I see(at quick glance), would be..
-Tristan
-Arbitrator
-Vexor
-Dominix
-Gila
-Worm
-Rattlesnake

(note, I had not seen remote reping domi befor, so I can see your point on that one, also there would be no changes on cap transfer arrays, so domies would still need to stay within range of each other)
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-21 15:36:45 UTC
That's the whole tradeoff with drones, though. If you send them out beyond the reach of close-range reps, you accept the possibility that you're going to lose some of them. That's balanced against the fact that drones are a weapon system that can be used against anything from frigates to battleships, with no direct powergrid or CPU cost to them.

If you're deploying sentries, you should be close to them anyway, in case you need to recall them; and if frigates aren't within close range, they're probably vulnerable to sentries anyway.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#14 - 2013-05-21 15:46:59 UTC
I agree with you totally Marc about the balance, but that balance was based off previous AI, there have been changes and rebalance and it appears the Pendulum has shifted from one extreme to the other instead of in the middle.

other posts I have read want to add more HP or damage to drones, neither of which I find even remotely balancing.

sacrificing damage output for a remote repair, is a viable option, increasing the range of the remote repair for dedicated drone ships, at first appears viable, (the repping domi combo I had not seen until previous post mentioned it) with no change to remote energy transfer, would not affect the domi duo tactic

im a reasonable person and willing to listen to all reasonable counter arguments, its how we learn
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-05-21 16:05:03 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
I just run a few variations of the dedicated drone ships thru EFT,

they don't have the cpu/grid to mount the larger remote reps, would mount small or medium only, and at most only one.
they are not cap stable, they would loose a high power slot to it thus a reduction in DPS (except the rattlesnake, it already has a utility high slot)

would not replace logi in any way, as there is no bonus to the amount repaired, and no bonus to fitting (reduced cpu/grid/cap requirements)


I don't know what kind of fitting you're trying but I can fit 6 large tech 2 remote reps on a dominix with 7k power grid to spare.

A more sensible fit would be 4 large reppers and 2 ETs

this is what I came up with in 5 minutes and it's RIDICULOUSLY OP if it had 70km rep range.

[Dominix, logilol]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
100MN Microwarpdrive II
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I

Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I

drones x100000000000
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#16 - 2013-05-21 16:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Edwin McAlister
i see your point, definatly over powered,

I have been convinced that this is a bad idea, will bow before the wisdom of those more experienced

perhaps a drone only remote rep module? eh, just an idea
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2013-05-21 17:32:40 UTC
Nah, just deal with it, NPCs shooting drones really isn't an issue. It happens in PVP so you'll just become a better pilot when you practice it in PVE.

.

Rengerel en Distel
#18 - 2013-05-21 17:51:18 UTC
Most of the people that were complaining about the new AI stopped complaining after the last tweak CCP did.

Web a sentry drone, that will usually keep the aggro on you.
Web a rat, that will usually keep the aggro on you.
Some have said TPs work, but I never found that to be the case.
Some have said using ECM works, but I never had issues after trying webs.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#19 - 2013-05-21 18:25:56 UTC
The mechanic you describe already exists in a fashion - you can launch a mix of combat drones and an RR drone or two, and get them to patch up the combat drones on the go.

Price you pay for never losing drones = crap dps. Balanced.


It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#20 - 2013-05-22 14:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Edwin McAlister wrote:
I just run a few variations of the dedicated drone ships thru EFT,

they don't have the cpu/grid to mount the larger remote reps, would mount small or medium only, and at most only one.
they are not cap stable, they would loose a high power slot to it thus a reduction in DPS (except the rattlesnake, it already has a utility high slot)

would not replace logi in any way, as there is no bonus to the amount repaired, and no bonus to fitting (reduced cpu/grid/cap requirements)

yes they have, just you don't know how to fit them doesn't mean other won't find out.

curently, a duo of dominix in a RR setup are able to perma tank 1K omni DPS, while wpplying 100% of their DPS the trick is that the domi is slow, and the range of RR is limited to 15km, making easy for organized ppl to break their RR and then, kill them.

this is made for balance purposes


now, a clusterfuck of domis with this setup give insane rep, but the RR effective range limits their ability, with your proposed change, this limit is gone, and as others stated before, this would make the domi (example) very OP


hint: in pvp, biggest DPS doesn't mean winning, cap stability doesn't exist

you clearly doesn't know a thing about PVP, otherwise you would immediately see why such a change would make any drone boat OP in pvp