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[Odyssey] Removal of moon mineral derived materials from T1 and Faction blueprints

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-05-21 20:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
Have another change for Odyssey to announce to you fine people in Science and Industry. When I was working on mapping out the usage of all the moon minerals for the T2 manufacturing rebalance, I took the chance to clean up the usage of T2 composites and construction components. There were a few T1 items that use them, as well as a number of faction items that had T2 build requirements by mistake (the original design for the navy faction modules was for them to have T1-style build requirements, but when creating many of them the original designers seem to have copied the T2 blueprints instead).

This affects many Faction Modules that have had the T2 materials and skills removed from the blueprint requirements.

This also affects the following T1 modules:
  • All T1 gang links
  • Command processors
  • Prototype cloaking devices
  • Warp disrupt probes

    • These T1 blueprints have had their composite requirements replaced mainly with planetary interaction products, and in the case of the Warp disrupt probes, more Stront.

    The full requirements for all these blueprints can be found on SISI, so if you are in the business of building these items you will want to take a look there for the changes and prepare accordingly.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    Strata Maslav
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #2 - 2013-05-21 20:15:25 UTC
    Another common sense change from uncle Fozzie!

    Thanks for all the hard you work you've been putting into this expansion and game we love!
    Callic Veratar
    #3 - 2013-05-21 20:23:02 UTC
    I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules.
    Ali Aras
    Deep Talent Pool
    Diplomatic Incidents.
    #4 - 2013-05-21 20:23:54 UTC
    This change is a nice little sensible upgrade to production. +1.

    http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog
    Minimax Zed
    Full Broadside
    Deepwater Hooligans
    #5 - 2013-05-21 20:25:09 UTC
    Fozzie, does this include blueprint copy requirements as well as build requirements? Wondering if Data Sheets will still be needed to make copies of a protocloak BPO.

    Thanks!
    Steve Ronuken
    Fuzzwork Enterprises
    Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
    #6 - 2013-05-21 20:26:57 UTC
    Callic Veratar wrote:
    I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules.



    I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual.

    Woo! CSM XI!

    Fuzzwork Enterprises

    Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
    Sarmatiko
    #7 - 2013-05-21 20:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
    Great news! At last Fed Navy Stasis Webifier blueprint will be fixed \o/

    Steve Ronuken wrote:
    I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual.

    QFT.

    But with archeology changes in Odyssey, I wonder - how this affect storyline components drop rate? I hope this hasn't slipped from developer's view (and epic arc missions that require hacking\archeology also)
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #8 - 2013-05-21 20:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
    Storyline modules are on our big list of modules we need to look at and make some sense of.

    As for the proto cloak copy requirements, I'll admit I completely overlooked them in the first pass. I'll see what I can do, but assuming we decide to remove those (no promises, yada yada) it may end up not getting done until after Odyssey at this point.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    EvilweaselSA
    GoonCorp
    Goonswarm Federation
    #9 - 2013-05-21 20:34:54 UTC
    Steve Ronuken wrote:
    Callic Veratar wrote:
    I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules.



    I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual.

    nope, it's the crazy cost of parts. check jita price on those sometime. there's countless bpc's rotting in hangars
    Jonas Sukarala
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #10 - 2013-05-21 20:36:49 UTC
    WILL THIS RESULT IN CHEAPER ITEMS TO BUY

    'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #11 - 2013-05-21 20:42:51 UTC
    Will this be applied to the 'Augmented' drone group, they are essentially Faction T2 drones?

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    Unit758
    North Point
    #12 - 2013-05-21 21:08:57 UTC
    Somewhat off topic, but still related. Whats the deal with "Extra Materials" not being affected by player skills and ME levels? Is this intentional, or an over site?
    Kellaen
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #13 - 2013-05-21 21:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kellaen
    Unit758 wrote:
    Somewhat off topic, but still related. Whats the deal with "Extra Materials" not being affected by player skills and ME levels? Is this intentional, or an over site?
    Whops, read that wrong. Probably an oversight, since the whole 'extra mats' is a sloppy hackjob in and of itself.
    EvilweaselSA
    GoonCorp
    Goonswarm Federation
    #14 - 2013-05-21 21:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
    extra materials for changes was a good idea for massive changes like procurers but for the relatively middling stuff it's starting to destroy reprocessing as a useful market correction mechanism for a relatively minor market protection
    Aryth
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #15 - 2013-05-21 21:28:33 UTC
    EvilweaselSA wrote:
    extra materials for changes was a good idea for massive changes like procurers but for the relatively middling stuff it's starting to destroy reprocessing as a useful market correction mechanism for a relatively minor market protection


    Foreshadowing up in dis thread

    Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

    Creator of Burn Jita

    Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
    Felicity Love
    Doomheim
    #16 - 2013-05-22 13:26:45 UTC
    +1 for "Da Fozz" and his good work driven by common sense. Idea

    "EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
    Callic Veratar
    #17 - 2013-05-22 13:38:32 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Storyline modules are on our big list of modules we need to look at and make some sense of.

    As for the proto cloak copy requirements, I'll admit I completely overlooked them in the first pass. I'll see what I can do, but assuming we decide to remove those (no promises, yada yada) it may end up not getting done until after Odyssey at this point.


    It would be good if storyline module bpcs dropped from storyline missions, not just the DED missions. Inventory could be controlled by the faction, frequency, and quality of the prints.

    As for how to balance them, that's a trickier proposition. At meta 6, it feels like they should be better than T2, but that necessitates them to be more expensive. Possibly a flat change to copy the T2 modules with a 5% CPU and grid reduction across the board? Manufacturing cost of T2 + 25% as a target? Storyline would be the way to go for an easy fit, but module quantity would not be infinite.

    The prints definitely need to be modified to something that's cheap and plentiful, rather than using the same decryptors as present. The starting options there I see are exploration drops, salvage, gas, ice, or PI. Mining, moons, and wormholes are already dedicated to other tech levels.
    Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
    Department 10
    #18 - 2013-05-22 14:53:14 UTC
    Personally I feel storyline modules acquired via COSMOS missions BPC's should all have better stats and lower CPU/PG usage than their T2 variants. At present some storyline modules are stronger than their T2 variants but the majority are same-ish or weaker.
    The COSMOS missions can only be completed once per char and coupled with the difficulty, more so since the improved AI, along with the rarity of some drops results in some ridiculous prices for some materials/parts. I suspect some of these parts are listed but never sell on the market. On the other hand I don't think the storyline modules or other better quality modules should be easily available or commonplace. It shouldn't be made a God-given right to be able to acquire these items. If they are revised and all made better quality than T2 modules than they obviously should retail at higher prices.

    " They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
    Savira Terrant
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #19 - 2013-05-22 20:09:57 UTC
    Hey Fozzy,

    I would like to copy and paste part of my (edited) post from elswhere regarding module schemes:

    Quote:
    I think meta items should have less fitting requirements (but more cap use?), but less bonus. T2 should have superior bonus with a bit more fitting than T1 (non meta). Faction should have either even less fitting requirements then meta with a T2 bonus or a even more superior bonus than T2 with T2 fitting requirements, preferably I should be forced and able to choose between them. Deadspace should combine both superior fitting and bonus obviously with even more of a pricetag (that already is the case for most deadspace stuff.) And officer can do anything (e.g. I like that officer webs have a superior range bonus to everything else but require a huge amount of pg when all the other only need 1 unit).
    Then there is storyline, I don't really know what to do with this. E.g. before the T2 plates where buffed, the storyline plate had the same attributes as T2, but with an even more extreme fitting benefit than the meta plate. Looking at what I would wish for faction, this might be reduntant for storyline now. On the other hand, it could be made in a way (staying with the example of the plates here) that while the faction plates would require less CPU only - for ships that have plenty pg,but are tight on CPU like most Amarr ships - the storyline would have T2 bonuses with less pg requirement - for ships that were not really desinged to fit armor buffer tanks, but have plenty CPU like ewar ships that need plenty midslots to fill their role effectively. This sheme could be kept up for all other storyline modules also.

    Having such a defined sheme for all module types also makes it easier to add new modules to fill non-existing module types for a specific module (e.g. deadspace for armor plates etc.) should that be desired in the future (you know you want it :P).


    Well that was my idea for module schemes. Depending on how the balancing is tackled to this regard, the (build) prices should end up accordingly. E.g. storyline modules still more expensive than T2, but not discouraging to use. I made good use of the a storyline armor plate on my PVE Rapier, but prices would be out of question for PVP.

    .
    Bugsy VanHalen
    Society of lost Souls
    #20 - 2013-05-23 14:04:53 UTC
    EvilweaselSA wrote:
    Steve Ronuken wrote:
    Callic Veratar wrote:
    I hope a similar effort is going to focus on the Storyline modules at some point. Some of them are worse than the meta 4 modules and cost more than 10 T2 modules.



    I think the storyline modules tend to be that expensive, not because they cost that much to make, but because the blueprints are somewhat rare, and the skills are unusual.

    nope, it's the crazy cost of parts. check jita price on those sometime. there's countless bpc's rotting in hangars

    Finally a point we agree on.

    I my self have several copies on almost all the storyline BPC's. But the components to make them also drop in COSMOS sites, and are even more rare than the items needed for the COSMOS missions.

    If I ever do get these items I still don't build with them as they are worth so much to sell. The storyline items are nice only in that they have very low fitting requirements. but they are just not worth the current cost. I have a few storyline items I use, but they are ones that were handed out as modules not built from BPC's.
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